Super clean build 
, can’t wait to see the finished product
Update 2020-04-17
Great progress. Bench tested and ran into a problem I could use some help with (see below)
Arrived
Bones Swiss 6 Bearings
Decided to go with some quality bearings for the build
Evolve 6" Tires
I cranked down the trucks to just before the bushings started to bulge and I was still able to get the 7" tires to impact the board relatively easily. Even though I really like to the look of the 7" tires I decided to go with the 6" Evolve tires instead. These ship from SoCal and arrived quickly. Here’s a shot comparing the 6" and 7" tires on the Janux 4.25" hubs:
Flipsky VX2 Remote
I ordered this about 5 weeks ago from banggood and it finally arrived. I love the feel of this remote in the hand, the bright screen with telemetry, and the rechargeable battery. The thumb wheel feels solid and appears responsive.
Latching Waterproof Button
To enable control of the BMS from outside the enclosure, I needed a latching, waterproof button. I like the quality here but it’s a bit big (hole diameter is ~0.7"):
New
No major additions to the design at this time.
Changed
Motor Spacers
As part of the integration process I began putting together the hubs, adapters, bearings, tires, etc. and ran into an interesting issue. I’m having aluminum spacers made and will need to get longer M5 socket head bolts to mount the adapters to the motors. This should allow a near flush mount of the adapter against the hub.
Complete
Test Wiring Complete
All hardware attached as per the wiring diagram. Power buttons work and LEDs light up.
Remote Programming
Powered on the remote and adjusted the settings.
- Battery Cells: 12
- Pole Pairs: 14 < Can someone verify this please? I cannot seem to find definitive data on the 58kv motors.
- Speed Option: mph
- Wheel Type: HUB motor
- Wheel Diameter: 150
- Throttle Calibration: Completed
- Pairing: Completed
- ESC Type: FSESC
VESC Programming
Watched videos, read, and reread the VESCtool Manuals. Started cautiously.
Auto Connect
- Connection to Primary VESC immediately successful
- Firmware needed updating. Updated to 4.2.
- Disconnected, connected to 2nd VESC. Updated 2nd VESC firmware to 4.2.
- Disconnected, reconnected to primary VESC.
Setup Motors FOC
- Medium Outrunner
- Battery Cells Series: 12
- Battery Capacity: 12.000 Ah
- Direct Drive: Checked
- Wheel Diameter: 150.00 mm
- Run Detection Button- Success! Both motors detected and settings seem reasonable.
Setup Input
- PPM Remote
- Didn’t change anything on first screen
- Didn’t change anything on next screen
- Finish- tested: nothing!
- Checked wiring schematic vs VESC connector and shuffled the pins around.
- Tested again: Remote makes motors spin and I get full telemetry on the VX2!
Bench Test (partial failure)
This is where the problem arose. The remote is super sensitive, just a small flick past center dead zone and the motors attempt to go full speed. Once they get to nearly 100% duty cycle one (or both I can’t tell) appears to vibrate and loses most of its speed before trying to ramp up again. It sounds bad:
Debugging:
- Disconnected CANbus cable
- Connected VESC1 to motor1, ran Setup Motors FOC- success. Spun motor up to full- one drive spins up, no vibration, remote still super sensitive.
- Connected VESC1 to motor2, ran Setup Motors FOC- success. Spun motor up to full- one drive spins up, no vibration, remote still super sensitive.
- Connected VESC2 to motor1, ran Setup Motors FOC- success. Spun motor up to full- one drive spins up, no vibration, remote still super sensitive.
- Connected VESC2 to motor2, ran Setup Motors FOC- success. Spun motor up to full- one drive spins up, no vibration, remote still super sensitive.
- Connected CANbus cable again- both drives spin up and vibration is back
- Changed remote to VESC2, both drives spin up and vibration is still present
- VESCtool / App Settings / PPM / General Tab / Multiple VESCs Over CAN: Changed to False, wrote change to VESC- one drive spins up, no vibration, remote still super sensitive.
- Turned on stream realtime data and stream realtime app data, VESCtool / App Settings / VESC Remote / General Tab / Control Type: Changed to Off, wrote change to VESC.
- Set remote to mode H. Pushed remote thumbwheel full forward: VESCtool reports 99.2% throttle
- Set remote to mode M. Pushed remote thumbwheel full forward: VESCtool reports ~75% throttle
- Set remote to mode L. Pushed remote thumbwheel full forward: VESCtool reports ~50% throttle
- VESCtool / App Settings / VESC Remote / General Tab / Control Type: Changed to Current, wrote change to VESC. Once remote gets past standard 15% deadzone, motor speed goes to full before VESCtool reports remote getting to 25% throttle.
Help Needed
VESC Output for given Remote Input
From the above testing and debugging it appears that the VESC output to the motor is set to ramp at a rate at least 10x that of the remote input. I have looked around the tool, the manuals, and the forums but I’m failing to find a location where this can be manipulated. I have tried adjusting the Throttle Curve but even at -80% Exponential this change only makes the most minuscule difference. I don’t need to change the curve, I need to change the multiplier. For example, I would assume at 50% throttle I would hit 50% motor speed and at 100% I would hit max motor speed. Can someone point me in the right direction here?
eLofty 58kv Pole Pairs
I’m seeing conflicting information on how many pole pairs the 58kv motors use. If someone who uses these drives could verify this info that would be helpful.
What’s Next
- Fix VESC Programming
- Bench testing completed without failures
- Get tubes and tires mounted
- Get spacers installed and adapters mounted
- Mount wheel to the adapters
- Finalize foam placement in the enclosure
- Wire routing for the motor leads
- Wire routing for the sensor wires
- Wire routing for the buttons
- Mount buttons, cable glands, and charge port to enclosure
- Mount enclosure to board
- Test ride
Research
Nothing in addition to previous posts.
2 Likes
20 magnets
4 Likes
Nope. Not how current mode on vescs work. Your remote controls the torque / acceleration of the motors, and without any load on them (i.e. bench testing) it’s only normal that they go up to max speed quite fast.
Those loud sounds from your motors are a bit worrying though. You should ask in the elofty thread if anyone has experienced something like that.
1 Like
I find it odd that the vibration / noise only happens when both motors are connected over CAN and everything is > 90% duty cycle. With only a single motor there is no problem getting to 100% duty cycle with no vibrations, so I’m hesitant to pin this on the motors.
Good to know about the Current Mode. Is there a different mode which will cap speed?
More testing needed! 
Not a practically usable one.
Whats the height of the enclosure? internal and external? Also have you thought of replacing the go-foc’s with neoboxes? I know the go-focs have a height of 19mm, but wouldn’t 22mm fit?
1 Like
Those measurements are difficult to articulate since the enclosure “flows” with the shape of the board. That said, my best estimate is that external height is ~35.5mm and internal is ~28mm. I have added some additional foam around the perimeter which gives me a few more mm, allowing me to attach foam to both the top and bottom of the internal components, which should provide some protection to vibration.
I have not really looked into the neoboxes after having committed to the go-focs. The layout of the phase wires at 90 degrees to the XT60 connectors was advantageous to my layout.
3 Likes
What type of on/off switch are you going to use for the bms?
I just installed mine and had the same realization that I’ll need one.
Update 2020-05-26
Figured out the wire routing (which was the biggest remaining unknown). Also complete are tires, tubes, Loctite, foam, buttons, more.
New
RJ12 Ends
In looking at how to route the sensor wires and phase wires, it was important that the design allow the enclosure to be fully mounted to the board and then connected to the motors. With the limited cabling length, the wires need to be extended from the VESCs to get these connectors to the outside of the enclosure.
The JST 6 pin 2.0mm connectors (used for the sensor wires) do not easily lend themselves to extending, are not really compact, and have no real strain relief. I looked at many different options for 6 conductor connectors including the Haggy sensor connectors, but eventually landed on using an RJ12 connector. The RJ12 connector offers a small form factor and integrated strain relief in addition to allowing for easy connection to other RJ12 connectors.
RJ45 Coupler
In order to mate the RJ12 connectors between the motors and the VESCs, a simple compact RJ45 coupler will be used. It should be noted that this coupler maintains proper pin order allowing connectors with the same wire order to be connected together. This connector was also chosen both for the metal casing and compact form factor.
4mm Bullet Connector Extenders
Just as the sensor wires required extending to reach the outside of the enclosure, the 4mm bullet connectors on the phase wires also needed extensions
Bluetooth Module
Once the enclosure is bolted to the board, it should only be removed in the case of hardware maintenance. That said, VESC programming was initially completed through a direct USB connection to each VESC. To get around this issue, a compatible Bluetooth module will allow for programming of the VESCs (including firmware upgrades) when used with the VESC mobile app. This module will connect with COMM connector on the secondary VESC.
Cogging with MakerX VESCs
Reading through the site, I came across this reply in the Go-FOC SV6 and Go-FOC SV4 …Maker-X thread. This sounded very similar to the issue I was having with my SV6 VESCs. The next step here is to upgrade firmware to v5 and test again.
Changed
Smaller latching waterproof button
The 0.7" button I was planning on using was just too huge. I found a 12mm option which matches nicely with the button from the AntiSpark.
Complete
Get tubes and tires mounted / Get spacers installed and adapters mounted / Mount wheel to the adapters
This was mostly covered and completed over on the Janux-esk8 Aluminum Hubs to fit Direct Drive thread on post 161.
Additionally, here is a side by side of an uninflated Evolve 6" tire vs an inflated tire at 50PSI:
Also a full shot of the first wheel mounting:
Loctite Janux hubs and adapters
Applied Loctite 242 to the Janux hubs and to the bolts which hold the Kegel adapters to the motor CAN.
Finalize foam placement in the enclosure
The corners of the N.E.S.E. modules required the thicker foam but the sides of the enclosure needed the thinner material in order to squeeze everything in. Additional foam is located on the top of the N.E.S.E. modules and on top of the VESCs in order to firm up objects in the enclosure once the enclosure is mounted to the board.
Wire routing for the motor leads
The motor leads (phase wires) will go through the cable glands as originally planned. Additionally the extensions will allow these phase wires to connect between the VESCs and the motors after the enclosure is mounted to the board. Quick shot of the extensions:
Wire routing for the sensor wires
The choice to use the RJ12 connector was detailed above, but some additional detail is required here.
First, with the extensions made available through use of the RJ12 connectors, the original design of using a single cable gland for all three phase wires plus the sensor wires (per motor) can be achieved.
Second, it should be noted that the wires used for the JST connectors are ~1.2mm, too large for the ~1.05mm channels in the RJ12 connector ends. As a result, each of the sensor wire leads required soldering to CAT5 conductors. Since only 6 conductors are required, the brown pair was removed from the cable length and the blue, orange, and green pairs were used. The sleeve of the CAT5 was kept for the RJ12 strain relief clamp. CAT5 was chosen over flat 6P6C wire due to a) a better fit with the (3) phase wires within the same cable gland and b) the larger gauge of the conductors.
Third, the wire colors of the sensor wires differed from the motors to the cables supplied by the VESC manufacturer (these motors are also missing the temp sensor lead). As a result, special attention needed to be paid to how the connectors were wired.
Lastly, was the consideration of total connector length. When (2) RJ12 connectors are mated using the RJ45 coupler, the entire length of the assembly is 35.6mm including strain relief for each RJ12 connector. This length gives some flexibility in cable placement for the connectors.
Wire routing for the buttons
As mentioned in my update from 2020-04-10, I relocated the buttons to the front of the enclosure. The antispark uses a momentary switch, requiring (3) conductors whereas the BMS uses a latching switch requiring only (2) conductors.
For the antispark, I used a standard 3 pin fan extension cable. For the BMS I used a small two pin connector I had available:
The connectors are both located near the front of the enclosure and the wires are run such that they have the minimum chance of being crimped when the enclosure is mounted to the board.
Regrettably the placement of the buttons in the enclosure did not go quite as expected:
Now all I can think of when I look at the front of the enclosure is Sloth from Goonies.
Mount charge port to enclosure
The charge port (on the other hand) mounted exactly to plan. The XT30 connector kept the installation simple.
Help Needed
Nothing right yet
What’s Next
- Verify functionality of Bluetooth module
- Update firmware to v5
- Bench testing completed without failures (with fall back to BLDC)
- Mount cable glands to enclosure
- Mount enclosure to board
- Route motor cables to avoid motor contact
- Test ride
Research
The helmet thread has lots of food for thought.
2 Likes
What charge port are you using? Couldn’t find it… How many amps is it rated for?
Here you are: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SVWT1F8
10A current capacity, IP67, locking connector 
1 Like
Update 2020-07-16
All the final tasks completed- and she is rolling!
New
Cable sleeves
The sensor wires and phase wires were a little too exposed. Adding some cable sleeves (and heat shrink) to them ups the protection.
RipTide Bushings
After reading the info here I contacted Brad @RipTideSports and he suggested getting the Evolve kit for my setup. I’m about 170lbs and he suggested getting the white/green box (for more carve) or the green/wine red box (for more stability) I went for the latter:
This setup differs slightly from the earlier version on the eLofty thread:
- Bushing R4 (Rear Truck & Closest to the deck) is now a Chubby and has the same durometer as R3.
- Bushing F4 is now a FatCone and has the same durometer as F3
- Bushing F1 and R1 are both ShortStreetBarrels instead of ShortStreetCones
Bluetooth Programming
Now that the Bluetooth module is installed, this should become the primary method of programming the VESCs (no more direct connections required)
Protective Gear
It’s time to get a better helmet, wrist guards, and some more practical riding pants. I’ll use my motorcycle jacket for upper body protection.
Helmet
I expect to crash some on this board, so sacrificing my motorcycle helmet for this is a bad idea. I spent a lot of time reading the helmet thread and eventually arrived at a few contenders. My criteria:
- I do not like modular helmets as they introduce a weak point into the design of any helmet.
- I like my face the way it is = full face helmet.
- I want good ventilation
- I want good visibility
- I want a light helmet
- I want sufficient protection at bicycle speeds.
The 7iDP M1 checks all these boxes. It comes in just shy of 2lbs (less than 1kg) and provides a very comfortable fit. Highly recommended.
Wrist Guards
187 Killer Pads- The Wrist Guards:
I tried the Triple Eight Hired Hands, but found the top ABS bracer uncomfortable as it pressed against my pisiform bone. The 187 wrist guards are comfortable, offer great protection, and work well with my remote.
Pants
Fashio Motorbike Jeans - Black:
My full motorcycle pants are a bit much and after some browsing around Amazon I came across these Fashio pants. I like how snug they are since this will ensure that the internal pads are in the correct location in the case of a fall. My one complaint is that the knee pads are a bit long and dig into my upper shin when my knees are not bent. Some aftermarket modification should address this without sacrificing protection.
Temp Sensor
The Neptune 15 BMS comes with a temp sensor. Adding this was easy and allows me to measure the ambient temperature around the electronics. This change required an update to the wiring diagram:
Changed
Smaller Cable Glands
Since deciding on the RJ-12 connector for the sensor wires, I was able to move from the PG13.5 to the smaller PG11 cable glands. This allowed for smaller holes in the enclosure (which is always nice) while still capturing the three phase wires and the sensor wires. This change required an update to the dimensional drawing:
Complete
Updated firmware to v5 and Tested
The biggest outstanding issue was the cogging of the motors. As I mention in my previous post, I found a post which sounded very similar to the issue I was having with my SV6 VESCs. I was able to update to firmware v5 and can confirm that the cogging problem now appears to be totally addressed. To be clear, I used VESC tool v2.06 for firmware updating.
Verified functionality of Bluetooth module
Before closing things up, I needed to make sure that I could program my VESCs using the Bluetooth module. Surprisingly, the hardest part of this was side loading the .apk file. For some reason the file browser on my phone would not install the .apk file (although I have sideloaded apps before). I needed to resort to installing the app using the Android dev tools in order to get the app in place, but once added, configuration was easy.
Before doing any programming, I simply started up the app and connected the Bluetooth module. At this point, my VESC programming was lost and I need to reconnect my laptop to the VESCs to run through the configuration again (I probably could have programmed with the phone, but wanted to walk through a known good solution first). In reading some other threads it appears that this is not entirely uncommon and the initial connection with the Bluetooth module will reset VESC programming. After reprogramming with the laptop, successive connections with the phone were easy and successful with no further instances of resetting.
Mount cable glands to enclosure
I was able to mount the cable glands in the designated spot in the enclosure. Internal clearance was not a problem at all:
Externally, however, they do protrude somewhat far vertically. Overall, however, I’m happy with the result:
Mount enclosure to board
First, I had to comb down the wires internally to ensure I had the proper clearance and make sure none of the components moved inside the enclosure while it was being attached:
After attaching the enclosure to the board, the cables were connected between the enclosure and the motors:
As stated above, to ensure the protection of the sensor wires and phase wires, some additional cable sleeves were used. This cleans up the external wiring quite a bit:
Route motor cables to avoid motor contact
Although the motors ship with cable sleeves installed over the motor cables, these sleeves would hang dangerously close to the motor CANs and often contact these CANs when in a hard carve. To avoid this contact, I used a makeshift bracket on top of the rear baseplate along with a velcro strap to hold the motor cables flush to the underside of the board. Longer term this makeshift bracket will be replaced with a permanent bracket as part of the mounting hardware for the brake lights.
Test ride
After pulling this all together I was able to take a short test ride and it was AMAZING. Here’s my initial impressions:
- Off the line speeds are underwhelming, but at about 5mph things really pick up
- Brakes were great out of the gate
- Carving is so much fun
- Things started to get squirrelly at about 18mph
- With the remote on (M)edium, I cannot max out my speed before board stability becomes an issue. (H)igh is just crazy time. Wheels up & no load (bench test), 95% duty cycle = ~42mph.
RipTide bushings installed
After adjusting the preload and getting the feel for the stock bushings, it seemed time to move over to the new RipTide bushings. Installation was mostly easy, but as mentioned in the thread I link to above, the seating for the R1 bushing (the farthest from the board on the rear truck) has just slightly too small a diameter for the supplied ShortStreetBarrel. I convinced it to go in eventually but it took a lot of patience and elbow grease. Also, the fender washers supplied were just a little too small for the diameter of the StreetBarrels and ShortStreetBarrels (F1/F2 and R1/R2) so I reused the fender washers from the eLofty kit (which have a slightly larger diameter). Here’s how it turned out:
Front:
Rear:
How does it ride?
- Stock bushings had a “float” in the middle (like the drift in old rack and pinion steering). This is totally gone.
- Carving is more predictable and progressive. Getting into and out of a carve feels like a much smoother transition.
- The front truck initiates the turn and the rear follows. This is noted elsewhere on this forum and makes for a more predictable carve.
- Stability at speed moved from about 17.5mph to about 23mph. This is just the very beginnings of speed wobbles. Higher speeds may be possible with more preload and smooth roads.
Thanks for the great ride Brad @RipTideSports
Help Needed
Nothing right yet
What’s Next
- Experiment with optimizing motor settings
- More riding
- Pull, clean, and reseat the bearings after break-in.
- Tear down, sand, and paint
- Regrip
- Build a custom mount for the motor wires and brake lights
Research
Nothing right now
9 Likes
Looking good! Your diagrams are always my favorite. I would recommend cutting the phase and sensor wires to get them to an appropriate length, its a lot more work but will look great when done right
4 Likes
Update 2020-07-30
- First long ride
- Pull, clean, and re-seat the bearings after break-in.
- Re-terminated sensor wires to match phase wire length
- Scalloped board to avoid CAN bite
- Optimize wire routing
- Experimented with optimizing settings
New
First log ride
Grabbed a spare tube and tire, some tools and air, and headed out on a 10 mile ride. It was a glorious adventure punctuated by a very long uphill at the end of the distance; I changed the remote into high and was able to climb at above 20mph all the way up.
In general, the initial pull for the board is a bit slow (expected of 2WD direct drive + pneumatics), but once it hits about 7mph it really takes off.
Bones Bearing Cleaning Unit
Ran through a full bearing cleaning and re-lubed with Bones Speed Cream. The unit was simple to use, the hardest part was unseating the bearings from the aluminum hubs.
New Knee Inserts
The stock knee protection which ships with the Fashio Motorbike Jeans are really uncomfortable and difficult to insert into the pants (due to their segmented design). I was able to track down some Cortec CE2 Knee Pads and these are better in every possible way. They insert into the pants much easier, provide a higher level of protection, and are WAY WAY more comfortable. I highly suggest this upgrade.
Changed
Re-terminated sensor wires to match phase wire length
(Good suggestion @Linny) The initial effort to terminate the sensor wires in RJ-12 connectors turned out well, except that I had approximately 4-5cm of extraneous cable which resulted in a slightly complicated cable run. To clean things up I pulled off the heat shrink, cable cover, clipped the sensor wires back, then started the process over again. After some quality time with the soldering iron I’m quite happy with the result:
Complete
Scalloped board to avoid can bite
Somewhere along the way I noticed a faint line on each motor can. It’s possible this happened before I dropped in the Riptide bushings, but regardless, I was getting some small contact between the motor cans and the deck. With the rear truck off for the sensor wire work, I grabbed my Dremel and added some small scallops to the deck at the contact points:
Once I remounted the rear truck I made sure to tighten everything down to proper levels. I’m hoping between the bushings, the kingpin tension, and the scallops, that future contact will be avoided.
Optimize wire routing
With the sensor and phase wire lengths now matching, I wanted to change the wire path, minimizing the length of cable under the deck. I have my initial strategy complete which:
- Maximizes ground clearance
- Keeps sufficient slack for the motors
- Completely avoids any possible contact with the motor cans
- Keeps much of the wire runs above deck (to avoid possible contact with road debris)
I’ll finalize these wire runs once I design and build my brake light mount, but for now, this should provide a general concept:
Experimented with optimizing settings
After running through the VESC FOC Motor Configuration Wizard, I rode the board and tweaked settings one at a time. I have landed on a configuration which I think provides settings conservative enough to minimize long term affects on the 30Q cells while maintaining full safety while braking. Settings not noted below were left at default. I’d love to hear input from other eLofty owners on how they have their settings dialed in.
MOTOR CFG / General / Current
- Motor Current Max: ~30A (result of FOC motor config wizard)
- Motor Current Max Brake: ~-40A (result of FOC motor config wizard with an additional -10A)
- Absolute Maximum Current: 45A (30A results in brake failure at max brake and remote high cut outs at max throttle. Have had no issues at 45A)
- Battery Current Max: 30A (At 30A per VESC, we’re looking at 60A Battery Current Max Total, which matches max discharge rates for 30Q Cells at 4P)
- Battery Current Max Regen: 10A (I’m trying to be conservative here and not hurt the 30Q cells)
MOTOR CFG / General / Voltage
- Battery Voltage Cutoff Start: 40.8V
- Battery Voltage Cutoff End: 38.4V (Trying to be nice to the cells and cut off at 3.2V/cell)
APP CFG / VESC Remote / General
- Use Smart Reverse: On
- Smart Reverse Max Duty Cycle: 10% (the default of 7% didn’t quite match the braking power of the motor braking. 10% makes this a smooth transition)
- Smart Reverse Ramp Time: 0s (I’m not sure why this is 3s by default since it essentially stops braking for 3 seconds as it transitions between motor braking and smart reverse. Dropping this to 0s makes for a smooth braking curve all the way down to a full stop.)
- Traction Control: On
Help Needed
I called Marc @Janux-esk8 and I was hoping to get a spare hub for my set. Regrettably he’s not selling his hubs as one offs, but only in the original sets of (4). This means I need to find 2-3 other people to go in with me on a set before they are gone. With Marc making an exit from the DIY community I’m hoping to grab these before they are gone.
What’s Next
- Get spare hub and build as a quick swap spare
- Build a custom mount for the motor wires and brake lights
- Tear down, sand, and paint
- Regrip
Research
Learn Fusion 360
4 Likes