SNAPPY | 12S6P Barrel on Duality trucks

As soon as I saw the new Duality trucks by @Titoxd1000 I knew these would be something I needed to try. They looked like they would perform similar to 3links but with less moving parts and I thought, let’s just do a full build.

My last full build was VENOM , a huge range boat with a 16S6P that initially was built to double as a track and street beast. It was an amazingly fun board but I ended up snagging a SRB V5 that became my dedicated track ride.

So for this build I wanted something smaller, lighter and… snappier.

DECK

Ive always liked the proto and after seeing @fessyfoo ’s proto on dualities I knew this was a way I wanted to head. Thankfully @andoug had a barrel deck he was willing to let go of. This was the first purchase of the build. Here it is next to VENOM (@tomiboi Odashi Gen 1 deck), talk about a difference.



ENCLOSURE

I decided to go with a top mount box on this build, something I havent done before. First reason was to make sure there wouldn’t be any clearance issues when leaning as the dualitys seems to lean a lot. Secondly in all honesty I was concerned with the shortness of the barrel deck so this way in the future if it’s just too short a deck transfer isn’t an impossibly difficult task.

I wanted as small of an enclosure as I could use, dont we all, and had seen @rafaelinmissouri ’s builds using these junction boxes. I figured this would fit the bill and snagged the 10.4” x 7.2” box off amazon

Here are some photos of testing the size of the enclosure on top of the deck. It just barely fits width wise but it doesn’t hang over!





BATTERY

While I waited for the trucks to come back in stock, I commissioned a 12S6P P45B battery to be built by @monsterbuilder over at IONDRIVE. We talked over what the goals were, sizing constraints, smart BMS and number of additional ports needed. Josh did an excellent job and the battery is a beautifully built brick of potential fun.




DRIVE TRAIN - WHEELS/TIRES/MOTORS/GEARS/MOTOR MOUNTS

WHEELS: I went with the excellent @tomiboi Hubba Hubs Ive used in the past. They’re lightweight, strong and reasonably priced.

TIRES: Ive had this set of 175mm SKP tires sitting around for a while now. I really like 200mm tires for all around cruising but am going to try these again as they fit more proportionally to the shortness of the deck.

MOTORS: A friend of mine was kind enough to gift me a set of 205KV Radium motors.

GEAR DRIVES: I originally set out to use enclosed gear drives this time around. I bought a set of newbee 4GS gear drives and had the absolute worst time with them. After getting them installed they had almost no free spin. There wasn’t a shim included with them as I was told I didnt need one. But no big deal I thought, I’ll print one. Well during disassembly I broke the small bearing that is pressed onto the pinion.

Here is how that bearing/pinion should look

Here is how mine looked after disassembly


Newbee eventually was able to send me replacements and new motor mount adapters that should solve the free roll problem. I reinstalled it all and… still no free roll. So disassembly again and… broke both bearings on the pinions this time.

So thats when I decided to throw in the towel on using the 4GS drives. I think the issues come down to a few things. Im not sure which version of radiums I have and some cause issues with free roll as the shaft interacts with the mounts etc. So I think that was part of the cause of it all.

It was almost impossible to remove the pinions from the shafts. The shafts have been used and even after a good amount of filing and sanding them as smooth as I could get them, probably caused it to be extra difficult to remove the pinions.

I also think the delicate bearing being used at the bottom of the pinion is a recipe for problems. A pinion puller would have helped but even when using longer bolts to slowly back the pinion off it was a difficult task that was causing undue damage and force against the motor and/or lots of force on that little bearing. In my non engineer opinion, that bearing/pinon design should be rethought.

I dont think the newbee drives are necessarily “bad” but I unfortunately had a very bad time with them. Here’s a shot with them installed.

So I went with what I know works, @MoeStooge ’s open gear drive. I mated up a set of 78T spurs to a Linnpower adapter plate and then mated that plate to the Hubba Hubs. Ill be using a 19T motor pinion for now.

MOTOR MOUNTS:
@Titoxd1000 comes through again with these beautifully made motor mount that also include sacrificial 3d printed caps that protect against scratches and gouges from the ground when lifting up the front of your board.

TRUCKS

As mentioned, Duality trucks were the main reason this build got started in the first place. I chose 300mm off set. 270mm would have been a great fit here as well but I wanted more future proofing so that if I end up on a different deck I should have no problem getting everything to fit.

These trucks are BEEFY. The fit and finish is outstanding. I didnt take photos of the trucks not on the deck, was too excited to assemble, so here are truck and deck photos together. This had 8” tires on it at the time also.



ELECTRONICS

I chose the MakerX D100S as the VESC I would use along with the bluetooth module, all bought from Mboards.

Having switched my brain over to trigger remotes I was happy to find a used Z.Mote that @fessyfoo was selling.

Im using a 10A WATE charger with a XT60 plug.

VESC TRAY

I wanted to only have a single enclosure on this board so that meant the VESC, battery, power button, charge port, bluetooth module and remote receiver needed to all fit inside this little junction box. It was a lot to fit and I wanted to be able to easily access the VESC usb port when everything was situated without too much fuss because lets face it, VESC sometimes just doesn’t cooperate over bluetooth.

I decided to place the VESC on top of the battery and through a bunch of revisions made this simple tray to hold the VESC, BT module and remote receiver. Printed in basic PLA it hold everything nicely.
Here is an earlier version of it and then the final sitting on top of the battery during an early mockup.


ENCLOSURE RISER

I didnt want to lose anymore foot space on an already short deck so I knew that building up instead of out was my only real choice.

I started the design of the riser by taking a photo of the curved spaces around the corners I needed to accommodate with the riser. I traced those shapes in illustrator and saved them as SVG files. I imported those SVGs into tinkercad and got to designing. Here are a few shots of the early test pieces I would print to see how close I was getting for fitment.



I think Ive done 50 prints to get to the final riser. Many of those prints were only a few grams of PLA, printing tiny sections as test fits.

As I got within a day or two of tackling the final assembly of the board, I like to wait till most things are done and ready to be assembled before starting the real building portion, it dawned on me that instead of cutting the enclosure box to fit the charge port and power button I could add 2mm more height to the riser and include them right in it.

So using a XT60E-F and the MakerX power button I went ahead and made cavities for them in the riser print.

The riser wont fit in one piece on my bambu P1S bed so it’s printed in two pieces with overlapping tabs allowing you to glue them together after printing.

Final riser was printed out of PETG and glued together. I added a small piece of tape on both sides inside also just to help the cause of keeping them together. Once installed the bolts will hold it all together.

Shots of riser uninstalled.


Shots of riser installed.




ASSEMBLY

I built up adhesive backed foam on the deck where the enclosure would go. This helped fill the void in the middle of the deck created by the concave when laying a flat box across it. If It could do it again (maybe I will) I would print a TPU cushion for this instead of foam for a cleaner look.

Once that was done I decided on where my pass through hole was going to be in the enclosure. With the VESC in place I marked the location and drilled through the enclosure first.

Placed the enclosure on top of the foam and marked the center point of the hole. Removed the enclosure and drilled first with a pilot bit and then all the way to size with a stepped bit.

Top and bottom


I then drilled through four holes for the bolts that will hold the enclosure onto the deck. I used flush mount washers on the bolts.

I taped the hole to create a bit of a gasket on the sharp edge of the plastic.

With all of that done it was time to tackle the wiring. I had already created extra long extension wires for the sensor cables and jumped into cutting off the motor wire plugs and soldering extensions to all six of those. Once the wires were extended I began running them along the bottom of the deck, using simple tape to hold them down.





Then to cover all those wires on the bottom I used Polywall. It’s plastic sheet material you can buy at Home Depot used for bathrooms. About $25 for a 4x8 sheet you can cut with scissors. This will be a street queen and since it’s just a cover this felt like the perfect material.

I took a photo of where the enclosure would go, scaled it up to 100% size in photoshop and printed it to use as a template. I cut that template out and used it to trace both rounded ends of the enclosure shape onto the poly wall sheet. Connected the rounded drawings with straight lines between them and cut out the shape.

I laid the sheet on the bottom of the deck and eyeballed where the holes should go to match up with the stock enclosure threaded inserts. Drilled the holes and placed m5 bolts in each one.

It came out pretty good but I will be redoing this soon. I want a little more uniformity in the shape and would like to add a foam edge all the way around to take up a bit of gap thats introduced. I wont be riding this in bad weather but still would like a little more protection from the elements.


With all the wires run and ready to go I placed the VESC tray on top of the battery, held down with velcro, and plugged everything in. Ran detection, went through a few typical VESC weirdness things and was programmed!

After that it just needed its first charge

FIRST RIDE

The loctite still need to set so this first ride was a simple around the block. All I can say at this point was it felt loose, stable and short. With more time on the board I’ll report back but Im thinking she’s a winner.

Im super happy with how it all came together and am looking forward to having a compact carver in the stable.

COMPLETED PHOTOS:






WHAT COMES NEXT?

It’s done right? Is it ever done? Id like to go back and fine tune a few things. I’ll be adding little touches here and there like flush mount washers under the truck mounting bolts. Replacing truck mounting bolts with the correct length so nothing is extra long. New grip likely. Possibly some aesthetic changes here and there. And I’ll be adding Big Beems eventually for some integrated lighting along with some SLFX underglow.

31 Likes

Well first real ride done.

Just about 14.5 miles and it was incredibly fun. Quick summary, they ride extremely similar to 3links as I had hoped.

110motor, 100battery, -70brakes is where I started. I found acceleration to be great, not too wild but plenty at 110a. Brakes were far too strong, backed them down to -60 and then finally -50a.

Top speed 34mph at full pin, felt like plenty for this board honestly. Since it wasn’t at full charge when I went for top speed as I wasn’t used to the board much in the beginning, I bet I can get 1 or 2mph more out of it.

7” tires felt great. I’ll likely try and stick with 7” but I’m sure at some point I’ll toss 8” on just cause.

Trucks. I’m at 15 rear and 35 front. Using a +5 wedge in the front.

Super carvy and very stable at 34mph as well. It feels so similar to 3links that I felt comfortable very quickly.

Deck, this is the biggest change for me after riding primarily longer decks for a couple years. It feels like I’m standing on a regular skateboard in foot width. Super wild and completely different ride feel compared to anything I’ve been on. Doesn’t feel like a short board or a longboard, something uniquely in between. By 5 miles I was feeling more comfortable. After 10miles it fully felt great and I was leaning more into deeper carves.

I’ve found it feels best, at the moment, around 20-25mph. Not that it’s unstable at higher speeds but this feels like it’s the butter zone at least with the first 14 miles down.

I don’t think I would like this short of a setup at higher than about 35mph. I’m sure I could do it but I don’t think I’d get the best this board can give above about that. Could be wrong, time will tell.

6 Likes

Yooo I like the enclosure extension! I use the same one. Got a link to the stl?

1 Like

I need to do a little cleanup on it and then I’ll be happy to share it. I’ll provide it with the cutouts for power button and xt60E-F, and without the cutouts.

5 Likes

I think Dallas used the smaller junction box.

2 Likes

Added all the details of the build above. After 6 months of acquiring parts and making decisions Im stoked to be able to put it all in this build thread. I tried to document as much as possible and explain in detail why things were chosen and how they were accomplished. Hope you like reading it as much as I liked building it!

6 Likes

Great build!

1 Like

The use of poly wall is sick! Does it stiffen up the deck at all?

1 Like

No, it’s extremely flexible. But covers the wires really well.

2 Likes

Great job! how are the trucks? I see folks buying them up. Thinking of getting a set.

1 Like

Will report back once I have time on them

2 Likes

Super clean build! And very well laid out and detailed build thread.

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the build as you get more time on it.

6 Likes

As requested here are the STLs for the riser.

With cutouts
Battery Riser Final - Section A with cutouts.stl (285.3 KB)
Battery Riser Final - Section B with cutouts.stl (208.1 KB)

Without cutouts

Battery Riser Final - Section A No cutouts.stl (296.2 KB)
Battery Riser Final - Section B No cutouts.stl (197.5 KB)

5 Likes

Added first real ride impressions up above in the second post for anyone interested in my take on the trucks and build so far.

Long story short it’s super fun and a unique feeling being on this length of a deck with angled tips.

8 Likes