Once upon a time people were happy to plug a bms into their battery and never worry about it again.
Now people wanna know every single possible data point about each individual cell in their pack, AT ALL TIMES.
Its all a little voyeuristic to me.
6 Likes
If we can, why not? If using this tech can make our batteries last even 10% longer, or save cells from over-discharge, this seems like an invaluable tech.
doesn’t seem any more voyeuristic to me than having a thermometer both indoors and outdoors. more granular telemetry.
I feel like anyone who was happy without this telemetry was either unaware of it or it wasn’t available at the time of build or it was cost-prohibitive
IMO we have to separate using a BMS and wanting to view that BMS’s data. If we have an effective BMS then seeing the data won’t add anything to that BMS’ effectiveness or help to extend pack life.
Other than a few of us real tech-heads, we don’t have any interest in seeing BMS data for any of our other devices. I think this is because we know those BMS’ work, we”re not worried about the cells in those devices.
I think a lot of why, as a community, we want to see more and more data is because we’re not confident that the BMS we are using is doing its job. We want to spend as little money as possible on the BMS but that forces us to spend all this time and concern on it.
I think that’s insanity. 
If we could trust the BMS’ we use then I think very few of us would ever want to see voltage data. Sure, we say we still would but for most of us that comes out of fear of the BMS not doing its job, not out of technical interest. Once we saw that the BMS was working I think we’d quickly lose interest.
Yes, yes, some of us are very tech minded and love data, myself included, but the vast majority of the community just wants to ride without having to worry about their pack, without having to find a way to install an app, without having to understand BMS terms and settings…they just want to ride.
8 Likes
Im not questioning what it takes to implement, I make BMSes for a living… Just saying that stating that you have thermal control on cell level is flat out wrong with your current implementation.
5 Likes
welcome, please check out this thread:
there are guides on how to wire lipo packs to a charge only bms
Welcome!
Check out that thread @frame linked to. If it doesn’t answer your question then post in the Noob Question thread as there are many more people watching that thread than this very specific thread on the new Trampa BMS. You’ll have a much better chance there of someone who can help seeing your post.
2 Likes
#nobmsgang 
3 Likes
Well, I think it is nice if you can trust your tech without knowing how it works and without looking at data.
BUT… It is important that the society keeps a certain knowledge of the technology it uses.
Otherwise we all become users or consumers of things we don’t understand. Technology will then become a black hole thing we are dependant on but with no chance to see through. Stipulating understanding of technology and making that tech accessible for a certain audience is a good thing.
I fear that a technology dependant society, that can’t understand said technology will ultimately become paranoid about the technology it uses. If something has the potential to control us, but we can’t control it, then we see a asymmetric shift in power. Therefore I prefer to make things understandable and transparent, even if it is only a BMS. If you don’t want to look at the data, fine. But the data should be there for those who are interested.
We are used to have certain instruments in our cars dash board for example: Motor temp, RPM, oil pressure etc. That is a good thing! If my car is always running a bit too hot I will have a chance to visit a mechanic and sort out the slightly damaged valve before it finally fails during my next holiday trip.
4 Likes
@Trampa Did you run out of IO on your chip and that’s why there’s only 1 thermistor, or did you decide you only needed one? With our packs sometimes being half a meter long I would think it woulda been better to implement 2-4 thermistors. Half of the battery could be on fire and the other half still reading fine temps.
1 Like
Agreed.
But that happened a long time ago and, IMO, will not change for the vast majority of people.
Arguably, it shouldn’t have to. What does it mean to “see through” a technology? Understanding it doesn’t make us any less dependent on it. If it serves a useful function then it is useful. Whether we become dependent on it or not is up to each of us. Not the technology or the level of understanding we have of how it works.
We haven’t understood much of the tech we use for centuries. If it is helpful, we use it. There’s a good argument to be made that the best technology is that which serves us but doesn’t require us to understand how it functions.
We’re diving down into a deep philosophical hole here and I see what you’re saying though.
But a shift of power to where? The technology? There is nothing but developers and users. The users will always have the power. They can decide whether to buy and use the tech or not, whether they understand it or not.
I have very little knowledge of how multiple devices I own, and I would dare to say the same for all of us, and yet no power has been lost or transferred because of my ignorance. I don’t become the slave to a device I have no knowledge of but that serves a useful function.
I think this is a perfectly reasonable approach and I have nothing against smart BMS’.
But making BMS data available doesn’t show anyone how the technology works or free us from it. It merely shows you the result of the technology.
It’s the same as looking at a watch. We see it tell us the time, the data it’s designed to show us, but we have no idea how it works. Nothing about that watch, or the BMS, is made more understandable or transparent because we see the results of its functioning.
Your argument for freedom from technology isn’t addressed by a display of data. It would be addressed by a full understanding of how the BMS, or other device, created that data and why the data has the values that is does.
But does knowing this actually free us from anything? Are we less dependent on the tech knowing why a certain cell has reached a certain voltage and not another? I would argue no.
The hold a tech has on us, our dependency on it, is solely in our hands and not affected by the amount of data or functional transparency the device has…unless we want it to.
Almost no one understands how a BMS really works. If Trampa wanted to make things understandable and transparent then here’s the perfect opportunity to take the lead and create a comprehensive theory and practice document for the Trampa BMS. Otherwise we just have numbers that we think are supposed to be really close together all the time.
But if that’s true, and the BMS is working properly, then that happens whether the data is displayed or not.
But without the knowledge of how to use the data those instruments are giving you then aren’t you still a slave to that tech? That knowledge is not intuitively gleaned from just looking at the instruments. Knowing when certain temps, pressures, etc., are an issue or not comes from understanding a lot more than can be gotten from just seeing the data.
This knowledge you need to learn. The data from a BMS is no different. On its own it is useless. Without the knowledge of what it means, and how to use it, then it’s all wasted. For many people a battery pack that just lights up the equivalent of a “service” LED is all they want or need.
We here are a very, very tiny segment of the general public. Our general and specific tech knowledge is light years beyond that of the average person and even the average esk8 DIYer.
I will never argue against having fully-featured “smart” esk8 ESC’s and BMS, and am working on a smart BMS myself, but I feel there is definitely a place in the market for dumb version of these devices and others.
For the more technical riders, and those who don’t trust the tech, these smart devices are fantastic and thank you for creating a smart BMS the community can use.
I still hope that Trampa would see that merely displaying data, and making settings accessible, doesn’t free us from our dependency though.
You argued that knowledge can help free us from a tech black hole. Then take the lead, create a comprehensive series of documents on the theory and best practices for the tech Trampa sells.
Tell us how the devices work and how they create the data. Tell us how to interpret the data. If these documents don’t exist, doesn’t Trampa’s tech merely perpetuate our dependency? Doesn’t it merely support the status quo of us being controlled by our tech due to our ignorance of how it works?
Thank you for your time and your thoughts. These kind of online discussions are always interesting and so rarely done with respect these days. It can be hard for anyone of us to find the time to really dive into them, but they’re enjoyable nonetheless.
10 Likes
Ummm….???
Just a picture from the linked-to page in my first post? Nothing to say?
you missed a key detail here
sorry for the confusion mooch, but in my experience this is a pretty common thing for companies like Trampa (and their employees) to do. it benefits them to spread posts that generate conversation, hype, interest and clicks. they don’t really care for your questions as much as they care about the marketing. that’s not to say they’re always like that/this, just that I’ve seen them do it a lot, and not just Trampa
new changes to the hw 
2 Likes
Not untill I do some more digging was looking for the bleed current and very surprised on it been 18s bearing in mined how frank stated it’s counterproductive to go over 12s on a Esk8 not as if there’s a lack options of chips with less pins. Wondering what Trampa target consumer were.
Pic took from looking around on the internet on a different page to what’s linked TRAMPA VESC Battery Management System BOTTOM (MAIN) PCB not every thing stayes on other websites thought it might be of interest and not seen by thos that don’t dig a bit more.
£175 with out the case did you notes that?
found it before looking on the forum
I didn’t see a without-case option when I posted originally and the price has been removed now (none for sale). Perhaps it was always there though.
LOL…does that change the resistance?
probably allows for more charge cument i mean current