The battery builders club

Thank you for the advice! I definitely don’t have the time to be taking on loads of projects, i have a pretty loaded work schedule these days unfortunately.

Ive been lurking in all the battery posts here and watching all the yt videos i can find. Definitely still a bit scared about shorting and blowing up. Ive seen everyone say the malectrics is almost as good as the kweld, they’re both pretty expensive to get here in aus, do you have any other recommendations?

Is there a resource for tried and true pack designs?

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I can’t stress this enough. I’ve spent wayyyy too much time building packs into layouts that make me use up nearly every single mm of available space and I don’t recommend it until you have a bunch of experience. Insulation can really add up unexpectedly especially if you do unconventional layouts… Make the layout simple for the first few packs.

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So build my pack and design the enclosure around that? I have access to some good manufacturing so i think i could glass up a custom enclosure pretty easily, as ive worked on boats aswell.

My cheapo spot welders led to consistency issues, which made learning how to establish a technique, slower and more frustrating. I was also maxing their , and the welding lipo’s ability out using 0.1copper, 0.1 nickel.plated steel sandwich.

When practicing with my cheap welder, The used ‘practice’ cells I established my technique and welder settings on, did not translate well to the cells I actually used.

When I had to roll off the unacceptably welded copper/nickel sandwich strip, I shorted the strip. It welded itself stuck, and it turned red hot in less than a second before i could break the short. Those 2 P groups were both 4.169v, when the other 8 reached 4.20 on the initial charge.

I injected those 2groups with 4.20v manually, as after 12 hours waiting on the bms to balance them seemed to be a waste of time and abusive to the other 8 groups, and they behaved surprisingly well thereafter.

I built my own fiberglass enclosure, and even once claimed my yet to be built battery will be able to ‘swim laps inside it’, yet stuffing all the wiring inside next to the battery, ate up a lot of that extra room, and I was very glad I built the enclosure way bigger than the battery.

Routing the balance leads so they do not cross over each other, I found to be frustrating.

I also resisted great advice to get a quality soldering iron, and thought my soldering skillls were pretty good, but getting 10awg into an XT90 cleanly proved far harder than anticipated.
Thankfully my soldering irons failed and I got a Miniware TS101, and can now achieve solder joints I am almost proud enough to post pics of here.

i also allowed many months pass inbetween battery buikds one, two and three.

How much pressure to use on the welding pens, and the feel of them when they sink into the strip during a proper weld, were muscle memory I had lost in the interim, and had to reestablish. The aging lipo added another variable, and its temperature played a much bigger role regarding consistency as it aged.

Get a few extra of the cells you intend to use, for the tear off testing, and in case you get a faulty cell or two. Any old cells you use to establish weld settings, will nit translate directly to thd new cells. The thickness of the nickel plating can be different, and if you ground off weld niluggets, there is no more nickel, just scratched steel, which will have different resistance.

Another regret of mine, is using inexpensive cells that just made the acceptable minimum CDR, when new. I did not want to use more expensive cells on my first battery, but somehow despite all the mistakes I made, It was a reliable battery.

But it developed way too much sag, and as it aged, got way too hot, and I had to lay off throttle, and charge much slower than I otherwise would. It has 3500 miles on it though, and still works. I just wished I spent more on quality cells.

My third battery build went much better, but my weld Lipo was losing steam, and I was having to use longer pulse durations, nearly maxxing out welder. The lipo needed to be warm, and would falk from 12.6 to 12.0 after 8 pairs of 85ms pulse welds, and the 12awg leads on lipo were too hot to touch,.and id need to recharge back.to above 12.45v after the 8 pairs of welds.

The lipo weld battery started emitting the sickly sweet smell of leaking electrolyte on the last few welds, attaching the main + and - which had 10awg and an xt90s already soldered.

Basically, I regret cheaping out, on the spot welder, weld battery, and soldering iron, and cells.

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I’ve laminated many dozens of surfboards, sanded hundreds, worked in a boatyard, and made hundreds of surfboard fins. Got all the tools

I thought making a fiberglass esk8 enclosure would be pretty easy considering my background.

It took forever, and I made plenty of mistakes.

Don’t minimize the labor required in designing making a plug , and glassing it, and even once glassed, tons of work remains.

My second enclosure, I had a mock oversized battery made of cardboard to lay on the deck in order to design my plug.
The concave will get you.

I have the pinecil soldering iron, which is comparable to ts101? Theres a 18650 recycler near me who sells reclaimed P26A’s that have been resistance and voltage tested, and came out of packs with minimal use, theyre under half the price of new cells, would it be a horrible idea to use these for a first pack build? Are lipos the standard for spot welding? Or will a car battery do the same job?

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Heard, maybe a hardcase on top will make my life 100x easier.

I’d say it’s easier to buy some readily available enclosure or a pelican case (for top mount) and work around it, just plan to leave a bit of extra space in every direction, and plan with a simple layout. Build something that people commonly put into that enclosure, don’t do start with uncommon layouts.

The Pinecil has a good reputation here. Not sure.of the differences to TS101.
I think the tips are shorter, but still interchangeable with the ts 100 and 101. I did buy an aftermarket tip for mine, the TS-C4. It arrived loose in an unpadded envelope, and failed. Then Paid about double for a Miniwarewhich arrived in a plastic tube, use a 7s battery charged to 25v to power it, and it can draw 83 watts and is all around impressive.

I’d have no issues using reclaimed tested Molicel P26A for the first pack. My first esk8 pack was made from a 2$ DMEGC 2600mah E cell of only a claimed 15amp CDR, and a 60C max. It is a 10s2p. My second battery was a 10s1p P42a. It outtorqued the DMEGC pack, but had less range. 3rd pack is a 10s2p of BAK45D, a tabless 21700 cell, on its third cycle now, and I am impressed.

If you get a Malectrics or KWeld I believe a proper size and health 12v car battery is fine, and preferred by those with a lot of experience

I have tried 3 different styles of the cheap ~25us$ spot welders. These seem to need a goldilocks zone battery. I blew up my red, and black welders, when trying them on a pair of large old but healthy Deka 6v AGM GC-2 batteries wired in series rated about 1000CCA.
I was hoping to be able to weld 0.15mm copper with 0.1 nickel plated steel, or 0.1mm.copper with 0.15 pure nickel, but did not have the power. The black welder failed instantly and tried to drill a hole in the cell, like a jackhammer, the red one just sent flames out of a mosfet, both with very low mS pulses.

My ‘purple’ welder proved the most powerful.on a 3s lipo, and I didn’t try it on the AGM. The cheap spot welders are a different topic, with their own thread, and I can’t recommend them. The money saved was not worth the time spent or frustration of inconsistency.

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Flair if i ever read one @longhairedboy

Seriously good advice, im constantly impressed by your ability to make less than ideal tools and components into quality output. Not a small feat and a testament to your patience.

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Used cells are not a monolith, every batch and individual cell has to be judged - which is a complication. Absolutely do able but is going to make the pack harder to make.

Making your own enclosure is hard to do well but also achievable. It takes a particular skill set but your experience with composites will help. I think you can probably pull it off but like any first attempt expect it to have setbacks and additional costs you didn’t expect. Another complication that isn’t insurmountable but adds up

[quote=“Tonks, post:26023, topic:720”]
the pinecil soldering iron, which is comparable to ts101
[/quote]. I have this as a mobile setup and also a hakko 951 station running the same tips and i have been really impressed with the pincel. It is a little slow to heat (not by much but slightly) and i can do quite a bit bigger joints on the hakko but nothing that eskate needs can’t be done on the pincel imho.

If you can get the full voltage to the pincel it will do great - at 12v i was struggling with xt90s on #10 and large braid and use the hakko’s extra 200 degrees for super large joints to keep from heat soaking everything

Lipos are a cheap way to get the high amps needed for welding, i use some old agm batteries recovered from a retired ups. A 92ah low resistance battery that i keep charged to full and floated 100% of the time and do about 100 pair of welds in rapid succession before giving it about 5 minutes to rest and cool - the advantage of agm vs lipo is one part thermal mass. Takes quite a bit to heat all that lead and electrolyte. Regardless of the chemistry of welding battery you choose you want to go big and stay in the top of the charge for use.

Depending on your needs, getting a bunch of the recovered cells to make a “practice “ welding battery might be good practice with low stakes and get a good feel for how they work?

Takeaway: limit your extra complications on the first builds - i TRY to keep it to one new hard thing nowadays. Spent too much wasted time troubleshooting an issue i thought was one thing when it was actually related to one of the other new unfamiliar processes or techniques.

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My favorite tips: the giant chisel and the baby bent point, anything small and little surface components and such get the little swept point and connectors get a chisel tip of appropriate size. Generally i hate the pointy tips - too hard to get the heat where i want as fast as i want with them but i think this is a matter of preference and not a rule or recommendation. Just my opinion


Just recently did some pcb repairs on my smallest components yet, like sorting pepper from fly shit :rofl: the bent tip makes it easier to sweep across multiple connections without leaving behind gobs of solder bridging pins

Edit: i should take more pictures of my finished joints - these are obviously not completed but i cant be bothered to re open the devices to get the finished work pic :laughing:

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I first used a 5s2p power tool battery with my TS101, and it was noticeable whether it started at 20.7v warm off charger, or 18v, as to how quickly it heated and how it performed. I have a 7s pack I first used at 24v to power it and that was a noticeable decrease in heating times, and ~75 watts max draw when heating.

At 25.3v it will draw 83 watts and heat to 400C in well under 10 seconds, and this amount of wattage potential, with wide angked C4 tip almost laughs at 10awg and Xt90’s. The smaller TS-C2 tip my ts101 came with was not nearly as effective on 10awg’ ing ths XT90’s , refusing to regain 82 watts after intiial heating, for some reason

I’ve not tried the Ralim firmware for its 450C and 28v max potential, nor used the USB-C port.

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I still only have the pointy tip and agree it kinda sucks, i really need to buy a couple of chisel tips, guess this will be my excuse. What are those coloured grips you have on there? Looks handy.

The reclaimed cells have apparently all been tested and batched together accordingly and all test between 2650mah and 2700mah and ir tested below 20m ohms according to reviews. My aliexpress battery was marked as delivered today but i cant find it at all around the front yard, so i may be buying a spot welder sooner than i thought. I’ve come across the vevorspot welder and was wondering if this may be a good first purchase.

Looks like a rebranded sunkko… there’s worse welders out there.

My advice would be to anyone looking to make a battery - just buy a kweld. There will never be a time that you will regret having bought the kweld.

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Did you buy yours from batterytech? Is there a second hand market here in aus?

No, because

I bought direct from keenlabs for both of my kwelds, no ragrets.

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My welder off Amazon has been working well and not as vulnerable as kweld. It’s not going to weld copper but no need for that with hybrid copper/nickel sold

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I’ve got hundreds of these new lifepo4 cells I’ll sell for $1 each if you pick them up

A nice big size and can make building a battery easy.

One dollar. Crazy. U can make a badass battery for 24 bucks that won’t burn up ur house and outlast ur interest in eskate

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Any of you guys ever use a Stoked Stock bms?
I’m having nothing but problems with this thing.