Hey guys,
I’m been reading the forum like crazy, checking all the intro must read threads, and researching. I’ve been casually longboarding for years, but looking to do a first esk8 build.
On decks, I’m hoping for a good kicktail deck recommendation. Specifically something that hits all or most of these:
Single kicktail (could do double / symmetric, just adds unnecessary length)
Wheel cutouts / open
Mild concave
Medium flex
No rocker (for mounting)
Wood (no carbon)
Drop thru / mild drop down
Wheelbase: ~25-28" thereabouts
Length: ≤ 38"
Overall, on this build I’m hoping to put together a casual cruiser that can handle the worst urban roads, potholes, and mild grass/dirt use, and maybe still allow a swap to large polyurethane wheels when conditions are good.:
Direct drive (dual) - TorqueBoards, MBoard, BoundMotor
The thing with a kicktail is that you will have to go with a generic enclosure or build your own as there aren’t any custom ones available for 38’'ish boards that I know off.
Space is limited and it will be hard to use pneumies with inward motor mounts, so gear drives can be a good option. Also, would be very surprised if you can fit a NESE in there…
Also, I don’t agree you don’t use the kicktail so much with a esk8. On the Lush Machine 3D it’s very easy to use it and I cannot imagine to use a board without a tail (unless I have feet bindings).
All my builds had kicktail but the only use of them was doing a 180 degree turn in a tight space. It’s really hard considering your board is ~15 lbs ~3 feet, you should create torque of 15 lbs*ft torque using your 4-inch kicktail. So, divide this by 1.5 bc you are not applying it directly to the end, and you have to apply 67 pounds to the tail to lift this thing. Not good.
The only place to use tail is short&lighweight esk8 such as @b264 ones or my U1 [in progress]
I think “short” is more important than “lightweight” in that regard.
When the weight of the skate has so much leverage it’s hard to pop it. You can pop even heavy ones if they are short.
But mostly for maneuvering and such, the tails never work well enough for tricks.
The tail also adds a type of “flexi-suspension” effect. If the front wheels are under the front foot but the back wheels are between your feet, you get this bouncy feeling effect from the back wheels because they are almost positioned like a Funwheel.
The shorter the skate is, the better the tail will work.
The longer the tail is, the better the tail will work.
The lighter the skate is, the better the tail will work.
The more weight that’s in the back, the better the tail will work.
You could get reasonable results even on a long deck if you avoided short tails and put the battery in the back and the ESC in front of that and kept the battery to 20 - 50 cells maximum.
I’ve had everything from a 44" deck with heavy 50 cell battery in the front to short 20 cell decks with long kicktails. The tail on the 44" didn’t work very well, despite being long. I almost had to put my entire weight on the tail to spin it around.
I have seen a crapload of short tails on the deck market, you should steer clear of those. Those aren’t going to work well at all. A long, wide tail will work best.
I want to add that bulkiness of the skate when using kick tail is proportional to it’s mass and proportional to it’s length squared. So you are right, as always.
That is the moment when experience and science come together
The force you apply to the tail creates moment M = F*L. So, the heavier and the longer the board is, the more force you need.
But that feel of bulkiness comes from inertia moment J ~ m*L^2 that makes tail useless to maneuver on the go because it makes so much harder increasing board’s rotation speed as well as slowing it’s rotation down during the kicktail turn
@pmg, appreciate your thoughts. I used to ride a Lush Samba in college and loved that thing. Broke it / cracked it a few times (cars, curbs, etc), repaired it, and kept on going. It was a blast, so I have a soft spot for Lush boards. I already drooled over your build threads, haha. How did you pick your motors to go with the Fatboy Gear Drives?
I’m trying to approach this objectively, without falling in love with graphics, drives types, or looks (per usual). For ruggedness/reliability, low noise & subtlety, I’m looking at both direct drives and gear drives. Gear drives seem to be pricier and blow my intended budget, but those @avX herringbone gears do look mighty pretty.
@b264 & @kntzn appreciate the calcs. I have a hard time wrapping my mind around a deck without a tail, but you may be right. It’s more sentimental than functional at this point.
