Shouting things like this without any proof whatsoever just makes people less likely to believe you 
You’re acting like a 10 yr old who created a facebook banner ad showing that “PEOPLE HATE THIS GUY because of THIS ONE TRICK”
Why don’t you let “raf” speak for himself mate
@rafaelinmissouri why did you tell sawyer your wheels cracked before you told us?.. Oh wait…
Hey Sawyer. Thanks for joining us. Just as an experiment, can you imagine that everyone here is your friend. Some have sent some respect your way for your early efforts to raise alarm bells. Try to enjoy that. If you are interested in seing some discovey wheels sent to your riding group, then the way to advocate for that is to communicate with a bit less rage and bias.
Everyone in this thread acknowledges that the black cored I-wonders were not reliable.
So far @rafaelinmissouri does not have any discovery cracks. He is certainly looking hard for them and being very scientific about it.
Hide tells us that the new core material is chosen on the advice of Dupont.
So lets be open to the possibility that Dupont knows a bit about plastic.
@rafaelinmissouri undertook a polishing excercise. He gave you some credit for making him look twice at his discovey cores. @rafaelinmissouri, @BluPenguin, myself and others have all contributed ideas towards differentiating surface imperfections from material fractures.
I think it is potentially useful for us to conisder your reaction to the surface imperfections. Indeed we all looked at the picutes and wondered if the lines were early indicators of cracks. The reason I think it is useful is that I-wonder should consider the possibility that polishing those imperfections out of the mold would give customers alot more confidence in the product and that a customer woud actually be able to identify any emerging cracks. At this point no one could identify a real crack because there are so many surface imperfections that resemble cracks.
I’m just wondering if you can move beyond the role of Chaos and attack. Can you take an honest look at the polishing pictures from @rafaelinmissouri. To me, it looks like the surface scratches create some optical effects that give the appearance of deep fractures – and that when the surface imperfections are polished out, the area below the polish appears fracture free.
Just remember that being able to learn requires the ability to change your mind about something.
I think everyone here is rooting for you to try something new.
You’re a chill guy to hang with when you’re not spewing speculation as facts. I don’t hate you as a person, I dislike many things you state as facts. As someone who runs a group and many people listen to, your biased attack on vendors is annoying to say the least. I do know what an NDA is, yet I do not expect a chinese company to sue overseas in US court over some skateboard wheels. Your biased claims is what discredits you. If you say 3 true things and 1 lie, and people catches you on that lie, they will assume you said 4 lies.
Mr,SR!
I am Hide, i am 39 years old.
so…
1: You are holding others wheels to tell stories from beginning to end, but you have never purchased a set of wheels from beginning to end. I can’t find any purchase records from you !
2: If you really want to be a good person for the benefit of many skateboarders, please look at the problem rationally instead of discrediting it with strong emotions all the time.
3: For your level of professional knowledge, I will never send you a wheel to test, because you don’t even know what’s the mold line, you don’t have the ability to test our wheels, there are still many things you need to learn
4: Why do you know more of our company’s business secrets than I do? ? I don’t even know when I signed a confidentiality agreement with other companies, haha. Maybe you thought about it at night while you’re sleeping ?
5: I will not stop you from doing anything. I don’t have that power, but please don’t @ my name again when you speak next time! I am not the boss of iwonder, nor am I the owner.
If he’s far from the only one with these issues, why did you have to use his pictures in your Facebook posts? Is he seriously the only non-NDA-signing person whose pictures you have access to?
These days everything from new iPhones to game consoles get leaked, despite the hoops they jump through to keep that shit locked down. And yet… we still see pictures of them. I find it odd that whoever these people are that signed NDAs can’t post a picture of a cracked skateboard wheel, in fear of it being traced back to them. Step 1: take picture in nondescript area (with no geotags etc). Step 2: post picture anonymously or through a VPN. Heck, if you didn’t sign an NDA, then you could post the pictures without getting sued. If anyone asks you where you got them, you’re not obligated to say anything. These guys aren’t the FBI. “I got them from the dark web, now go away.”
It would be nice to have an explanation as to how you came to know about all these NDAs. I’m assuming the answer will simply be “I know people.”
You may not have called anyone stupid, but you nailed the condescending tone.
Ok, quick recap:
Sawyer’s explaination for only having Discovery pictures from @rafaelinmissouri is that all of the cracked discovery wheels are in the hands of companies that have signed NDA’s. No one in this thread is buying that. Its like saying that an invisble tooth fairy exists and the proof is that you can’t see him.
@hide is not in any mood to facilitate sawyer being a product evaluator. It is understandable because Sawyer has been insulting, beligerant, untruthful and does not seem to be open to doing anything other than continuing that pattern.
I have invited Sawyer three times to comment on the @rafaelinmissouri polishing pictures. I was hoping that Sawyer would accept the invitation and come to the conclusion that the surface imperfections shown in the pictures resemble cracks but are in fact – not cracks.
Obviously that did not happen.
@Hide has put forward that Sawyer appears not to be a customer at all. No respone to that from Sawyer.
So my inviting Sawyer to participate has gone in a much different direction than I was hoping for.
One disappointment for me is that @BluPenguin appears to have predicted the outcome. 
My theory turns out to have been wrong. That’s not a disappointment. It means I learned something.
I think it was worth a try. If you give people a chance to tell you who they really are, they usually do.
So I feel its pretty conclusive that Sawyer is knowingly spreading false and defamatory information on his FB page. His claim that the discovery edition testing has resulted in cracks is false and misrepresents pictures taken from this thread. Its a good thing to have the misrepresentation documented in this thread.
Certainly, I did not forsee this outcome. But here we are.
Sawyer. My advice would be to remove the false information from your FB page and stop making false representations of pictures taken from this thread. I get the sense that you are just a kid. But everyone can be held financially accountable for the cost and consequences of false and defamatory statements.
@BillGordon can you make sure that Sawyer cannot DELETE or EDIT his posts to this thread.
There’s a reason the software behind this forum is called “Discourse.” Everyone gets the chance to make their case, but this often results in someone showcasing their bias.
We don’t do that, nor would we if we had those tools at our disposal. We only delete things that violate the forum rules. I don’t think Sawyer understands how he comes across, so I don’t think he’ll delete his comments anyway.
Nice of you to try, Paul.
You are spot on here.
There are leaks for multi-billion dollar products like the iPhone, and this Sawyer guy really wants us to believe, based on his word alone, that iWonder has the legal muscle, all the way from China, to successfully muzzle any leaks from multiple companies with clear cases of 120D failures? 
There are new Discovery Cloudwheels in the hands of normal consumers like raf already. It would take zero effort for one of these alleged companies with an “utterly failed” sample to upload an anonymous photo and settle this in a heartbeat, and you can bet that American companies would be more than happy right now to help discredit a Chinese operation, for a variety of reasons (good and bad).
So at this point, it’s just a matter of put up or shut up. Everyone else is getting tired of the histrionics.
@rafaelinmissouri clearly showed he was unable to polish out certain cracks. It’s quite obvious they are cracks. Mold lines are not jagged like this is…
@Hide is pulling shit out of his ass. I bought my wheels on Amazon like the majority of people I know here in LA. Never direct from iWonder. That doesn’t make me “not” a customer
My claims of the discovery core cracking are 100% on the mark. They will not withstand our abuse, but go ahead, buy them for yourself and find out😉
If you don’t believe they signed NDAs, go ahead and ask the companies iwonder is working with😉
@Hide says “I don’t know when”… Seriously?
He doesn’t deny it at all😂
You don’t have to worry about me removing anything, cause it’s all staying😉
@Hide has you all wound up like his puppets, and it’s quite funny to be honest😂
@Hide is a joke through all of this. He attempted covering everything up from the start, yet you somehow think he won’t do that even now… Lmao.
iWonder is scamming people out of their money, charging premium price for garbage quality. You can purchase higher quality wheels for a cheaper price than the $120 cloudwheels, and they will last faaarrrr longer… Does that really sit right with you?
@Hide tried saying that the cracks on the first gen were also mold lines, you really think he wouldn’t lie again?
Now Hide is claiming that the jagged crack on the discovery core is a mold line too😂
Y’all funny.
I guess you don’t know how non-disclosure agreements work.
See, it means you can’t disclose anything, period. Whether it be anonymous or not, iwonder will know who did it.
Your automatic assumption that’s it’s an American company I’m referring to is FARR from correct. The company’s I’m referring to are based in the same general location…
@Hide is a joke. Go ahead and tickle his fancy all you want, you’ll learn one day:wink:
Sawyer I think you’ve gone more insane… Rafael buffed ONE SPOT on his wheels and the lines went away. To my knowledge he didn’t do it to the rest of the wheel since that would have taken FOREVER.
Gang - a healthy does of scepticism is welcome when testing new products, particularly when it’s a rework to solve for a failure. @novamuto came to the thread upon request after he had been quite vocal about his opinion elsewhere. His responses and the passion are expected.
No one has crossed any lines but wanted to drop a reminder here that we all want the same thing, the truth from data driven real world testing. while interesting, debating the finer points of international non disclosure agreements, is a bit out of scope.
If possible let’s keep the passion and focus on the results of the testing to have a reasonable assessment of the products safety and performance.
Agreed. Which is why I’m so vocal about the shitty quality.
Some of the company’s that iWonder is working with have put the wheels through tests, and they UTTERLY FAILED.
But I understand if you choose not to believe that, because I can’t disclose any more info with an NDA agreement in place. So go ahead and amuse Hide, buy his wheels, test them.
Just because you don’t believe me doesn’t mean I’ll be changing my stance. What I’ve said is 100% truth.
You’ll find out exactly what I mean👌
Apparently iWonder has top notch detectives working for them. Nothing slips through their “cracks.”
So these NDAs you seem to know much about (which you knowing about contradicts your condescending teachings as how they work) are something we have to do the research to find out about… despite them being your only “proof” that there are several other cases of this happening. Got it. That’s totally fair, right everyone? lol
Like I said, you don’t have to believe it. Go find out for yourself:wink:
Just because you’re so head strong AGAINST it doesn’t mean it false😂
My stance remains, and always will.
Until you’ve tested the wheels thoroughly… Shhhhhhh
You’re too close-minded to believe it’s even possible, so go put a few hundred miles on them yeah?
I’ve seen the tests, I know what those wheels are like. You haven’t seen them, but you choose to believe that I haven’t either instead of remaining open-minded. Funny lol
I can see that a few folks are typing at the same time so it’s understandable that the discussion surrounding legal documents will not immediately subside but lets focus on testing results so the topic can focus on Discovery 120D Cloudwheel testing.
Until testing has been completed it will be helpful to take the following tact:
@novamuto i think your point is well made. you have insider knowledge that you cannot disclose but feel a sense of duty to warn the forum of concerns you have personally witnessed outside of public view.
@all let’s pause on the discussions related items outside of data being presented here. if we need a distinct thread to investigate and interrogate other evidence i’m happy to open one and move these posts to keep the conversation going.
