[In Progress] NoNa Onewheel | DIY Onewheel build | VESC 6 | PeiScooter Hub/Belt drive

Narnash · November 6, 2019, 10:19am

Overview of Tasks (no particular order)

Intro - inspiration, resources and planing
VESC 6 / VESC Tool Balance APP - testing stuff and figuring out values (maybe a video)
DIY Footsensor - a how (to) I do it (maybe video)
Motor - Open up the phub-141, kV, weight, maybe add Tempsense? Can we change the termination? Also making the onewheel hub and belt drive compatible!
Frame - Mostly some (kinda crude) TIG welding (I “tougt” myself about 3 months ago)
Battery - Batterysystem: I want to quickswap, No BMS and why I do so?
Conclusion - I may never come so far, we will see.

INTRO

Alright, this is a buid in progress or at this point even a build pre progress buildthread about building a DIY Onewheel with the help of the (kinda new) VESC balance APP.
I will use (mostly for simplicity but also because I already have) a VESC 6 for motor/speed control and will basicly only add batteries, the wheel/hub in this case the chinese PeiScooter hub (which are kinda the way to go right now), the footsensor (DIY velostat/copper) and frame (selfmade stainless steel) for this build.

The Redstar from @Jopj inspired me to build my own Oneweel.

After a little bit of lurking in the old forum I found this very helpful thread with various comments, some helpful links and videos about DIY Onewheels.

There are also some standalone buildthreads present, I recommend to check them out if you want to follow the DIY Onewheel rabbithole
Eventhough most buildthreads and also the OW Build Guide are more complicated than they need to be nowadays with their external arduinos, IMUs and other logic (that are not mandatory anymore).
BTW THANKS AT THIS POINT FOR THE EFFORT OF A FEW COMMUNITY MEMBERS, ( so far I only found @NuRxG in the esk8.news forum, feel free to comment or PM me to mention more contributors) we have a build in “balance APP” in the VESC now which simplifies the build quite a bit (without that I wouldn’t dare to try my own build)!

There is also the Fungineers YT-Channel which has a DIY OW Playlist that I can recommend to check out.

WHAT I HAVE - November 2019 -

the VESC 6 (260€) and fiddled a bit with the IMU so far
FOR TESTING , some batteries 10S4P the build will probably go later with 10S (12S) 2P Samsung 30T (~100€) maybe quickswapable and a random motors also for testing
some stainless steel (~40€)
velostat sheets (15€)
– tire Maxxis MW 11x6.00-5 + 130 mm kart rim (together 70€)

IN THE MAIL

copper sheets (ebay) (~4€)
the PeiScooter hub ordered the phub-141 (170€) (like this one bt without diskbrake attechment), also very common is the phub-188 which @Jopj used
https://peiscooter.com/10inch-10-inch-10x6-0-5-5-wide-tyre-bldc-brushless-gearless-wheel-hub-motor-36-60v-power-scooter-hub-motor-hally-motor-phub-147.html
some aluminium stock for adapters, spacers and pulley attachment (30€)
some rubber sheets, cables and XT90-s (~20€)
21700 NESE tabs (I will modify a 3dp compresion holder) (~30€)
preped axle 20mm (18€)
bearings and pulley (40€)
bolts and general supply (~20€)
APS (I know bad rep but I need low kV, I will battel harden it) 6373 kV90 (100€)

COST (so far which is most of what I need, except for consumables)

~720 € (+ PeiScooter motor, the 720€ includes tire+rim and APS motor instead)

9 Nov 2019 - Some Progess is made

Most of my stainless steel arrived, I also got the velostat in the mail.
But the biggest progess I had is that I made the first sketches in Fusion. Doing so I scraped basicly 50% of the toughts I made previously.
After chatting in PM with @Fosterqc the idea of a external motor for my Onewheel was growing in my head. But as I ordered the phub-141 already (no shpping info yet btw) I wanted to keep my DIY OW compatible with both, the hub phub-141 and a 6374 making the whole build a bit more complex.

These are my basic plans so far, I will order what I will need in the near future (axle, kart rim, tire: Maxxis MW 11x6.00-5 as the usual Hoosier is expensive AF in Europe)

The footsensor, gripplates and anti scratch-nosedive attachments are not sketched yet.

Brenternet · November 6, 2019, 10:38am

Keeping an eye on this one, I hope you enjoy the project and make all the mistakes for us

Quiles · November 6, 2019, 10:44am

…marked this one too. Make us proud.

Narnash · November 6, 2019, 11:15am

I hope to get away without a fracture (this time) working with 1 arm sucks.

Jopj · November 6, 2019, 2:17pm

Awesome! We need more onewheels! I’m interested if the 3-shunt design of the VESC 6 makes for a quieter motor - the focbox I use has great control performance, but makes the Phub-188 ring in a kind of squealing, blurbing way at very low speed regardless of switching frequency. It’s no problem but having it completely quiet is nicer, and I don’t have the issue with a flipsky 6.6 (3 shunts).

Please measure the KV of your motor, it would be good for everyone building these to know since PeiPei can’t be bothered to list them…

Narnash · November 6, 2019, 2:44pm

Sure I will do that, mind you that I picked the phub-141 and not the 188. But my guess is since they have a similar “spec” and same size that they are electrically the same.

I ordered the 600W 36V (if this means anything ) phub-141

Jopj · November 6, 2019, 2:54pm

More datapoints is always good, especially with different motors so people can choose which one to get.

About the phub-141, it is the same motor as the 188, according to PeiPei (they answered that one…). It has mounting for the disk brake and might not be a tubeless tire, although I’m not sure about that. We’ll see if that one is also ~10Kv, something tells me might be though I almost picked the 141 too but went with the 188 due to the narrow mounting being more to my taste, Redstar is quite a bit smaller than the Onewheel XR.

Narnash · November 6, 2019, 3:01pm

I’m pritty sure I picked a motor that had explicitly 2 flat sides and was about 195 mm wide + thread.

There is the phub-147, pictured with a disc brake and the phub-141 with 2 flat sides (but I can’t find the listing anymore, I also can’t check Gmail at work ) well, will be a suprise what I recieve I guess.

for chinese B2C

Jopj · November 6, 2019, 3:05pm

Hope you get the right one. I got scared off the 141 by the images on the AliExpress listing where it looks like the shaft protudes a lot on both sides, the shaft on mine is just a tiny knob, around 200mm long in total.

I asked them to shorten it a bit, they said OK but it arrived in stock form anyhow.
Indeed, for chinese B2C

Narnash · November 11, 2019, 2:14pm

Some Progress:

As you can see I updated the first post a bit (and also added a Fusion modell of my project), the plan has changed a bit. My OW should be able to use the PeiScooter hubmotor AND a 6374 belt drive (kartwheel).
I ordered a few more parts to accommodate for my changes namely a kart rim and tire (not the in the community popular Hoosier since there are not common in europe).
I picked these:
https://www.kart-schuette.de/karts/felge-130mm-125cc-dwt-stern-silber.html
https://www.kart-schuette.de/karts/maxxis-mw-regen-cik-hinten-11x6-00-5.html

I’ll have to make a an adapter for the rim somehow to use it on a 20 mm axle (in my plans I had 12 mm but this seamed a bit flimsy). I also have to get a HTD5 pulley that I can mount either on the rim or even better also on the axle, I have a 60T 15mm pulley in mind.
Like this one, it should work nicely once I turned it down (I’m a complete lathe noob and will ask my dad for help)
https://www.agrolager.de/product_info.php?products_id=40003706
The bearing size for pulley and rim is probably a SS 6004 2RS 20x42x12 mm bearing, so nice and big. Seams the right choice with only 1 wheel and 90 kg on top (board+me )

In the meantime …

… some stuff arrived. It’s some stainless and the velostat, the metal I cut today. And I also basiclly made the 63xx mount already, here are some pictures.

This is a sketch of the motor mount.

… After some cutting, drilling and filing …

…and now some cleanup and a few spotwelds. … mount done, turned out pretty well.

This is what I have to weld together in the near future, adding another two stainless flats, some more cutting and drilling and the frame is already done .

ESC side with the motor mount on the left side (will be in the front later) and the battery side on the right.

PS: Uuppsi I welded the motor mount on the wrong side because I laid the parts upside down … I guess the motor and pulley go on the left side now:sweat_smile:.

Narnash · November 13, 2019, 10:09am

Next Update (top post will be updated later)

As I have, well had, a few days off I’m progressing rather quickly. I mostly finalized my CAD sketch, the kart rim and tire also arrived and I also mostly welded everything I have to.
By the time I just order a few remaining bits like a 60T pulley (https://www.agrolager.de/product_info.php?products_id=40003706) that I can process on the lathe, some bearings, the axle and also some minor stuff like screws and a sheet of thin rubber to cut seals.

In the near future when I finished to put all metal parts together I will take some more pictures and after that I will make the VESC balance APP video.

Ah and here are at least some wheel pictures

the tire: Maxxis MW 11x6.00-5 ~35€
the Rim: Douglas 130mm 125 ccm DWT, star RIM ~30€
some sheet metal: 1 mm stainless steel (top cover) and 4 mm aluminium (bottom cover screwed on)

Getting tubeless kart tires on such small rims is kinda hard.

The tire appears to be 285 mm (thankfully I accomodate for 290 mm tires) in diameter and is pretty soft (at 1.5bar ~ 15psi) super grippy. Even wih my small hands I can easily pick it up like a resined up handball.

The width is very close to 6" spec with a 130 mm rim.

The wheel looks kinda narrow next to the back (battery frame on this pic only spotweld) but I need the space on the sides to fit the pulley, while keeping the wheel centered (the frame is 215 mm ~ 8.5")

This is the actual build size, the long flats are the actual missing frame pieces but will probably strengthend. As you can see the stainless plates will cover the top, the very right (ie very top) is for the VESC 6 but will get a wooden or plastic cover to make the BT module (which I want to use and YES IT WORKS IN THE BALANCE APP ON THE VESC 6 WITHOUT ANY MODIFICATIONS)

stay tuned more in the future

Narnash · November 14, 2019, 5:50pm

Some more bits arrived:

some aluminium rounds and “pipe” for spacers , the 60T pulley and some big ass genuine SKF bearings 20x42x12 (new good bearings feel so nice

)

A closeup on the bearing (sweet huge bearings) Also belts HTD 600-5M-15, two of these one spare just in case (reaching free shipping limit …)

Fosterqc · November 14, 2019, 5:59pm

Coming along well! I’m glad I could have inspired you to pursue this geared drive diy Onewheel ie Funwheel.

I would be interested to feel how it rides compared to a hub motor Funwheel.

Unless it turns out they have some flaw I’m not forseing I’m definitely going to build a least a prototype. I’ll have my old VEGA tire when I switch it off my Onewheel. So I’ll get a wheel hub for it I think, pretty economical build.

Narnash · November 14, 2019, 6:13pm

I’m actually a bit concerned power control wise … 90kV 6374 1:4 reduction … I feel like PID tuning may take a while
This config is chosen to result in about 29-33 kmh speed at 0.75 duty cycle (ie tiltbackspeed) I kinda doubt to be able to use that anytime soon .

Fosterqc · November 14, 2019, 6:18pm

I have my struggles with PID tuning in robotics, although it was the programmers problem not mine I still helped them get it right (or at least close)

All I got to say is try the best you can and eventually you should get it working. I haven’t played around with the VESC self balance feature but I hope to soon. I look forward to seeing you tune it up. Gonna be an interesting beast for sure. Probably gonna sound cool.

Narnash · November 14, 2019, 6:22pm

I think that I could had cut various costs easily tbh, smaller DIY axle for example and it myself buying more stuff frome ali instead of sourcing them (kinda) localy. There is sure also the option to use a VESC based ESC instead of the VESC6 (if you’re OK to drop BT anyway) and maybe in the future we will have populated VESC based ESCs who knows. Things like kart wheels and rims sure can also picked up 2nd hand.

All in all I think that a good belt DIY OW/Funwheel should be able to be built at maybe 450€

BTW
On an second approach I would probably go with a bit smaller/shorter (and maybe try some aluminium welding) frame, I kinda feel it getting heavy and maybe a tad to long.

Narnash · November 14, 2019, 6:26pm

I’m very thankful that the software thing is mostly done and everything I need is accessible through the VESC Tool, also that the BT works (at least on the VESC6) meaning I can tune them on the fly.
Wouldn’t be the software side done already I would be lost

Narnash · November 20, 2019, 11:08am

Small update:

Yesterday some battery cells from Fogstar arrived (thanks @BenF) my 40 x Samsung 30T’s where cheaper a per piece than my last Samsung 30Q order from NKON.

These are for two 10S2P packs for this build (easy swapable)

Meanwhile I welded the frame together, it ended up a bit more distorded than I like, propably was to impatient and a bit higher amparage would had been better + a bit more cooldown time.

The 20x215 mm axle sits a bit to tight thanks to the distortion, taking it out takes a bit of force (but thats OK)

Today is lathe day btw so hopefully tonight I can attach my adapters and the pulley.

Narnash · December 4, 2019, 11:42am

Sorry, tha I didn’t posted about any progress the last couple of days.

Finally my copper foil/thin sheet arrived, so the footsensor assembly will be posted soon™.
I also received some rubber sheets to make some gaskets in one piece (made from NBR/SBR which is way cheaper than silicone, easy to glue and does kinda well heat/flames).
Sadly my 6374 90 kV motor is backordered I hope to recieve it before christmas though.

BUT the peiscooter hub arrived!!! (I didn’t got any mail except my Paypal payment so I was quite worried that I had to open a PP case).
As promised I will try to take some pictures from the inside. I will also measure the actual kV, in fact I allready give the hub a spin on a 10S 34.7V battery and my VESC6 it had a ERPM/V of 175 this is already fudged for 95% duty cycle, now I only have to count the poles(i.e. magnets/2).
Maybe I can attach a thermalsensor to make some open_loop test to determine how much amparage the motor really can handle in the inside.
There is also the big question about delta/wye retermination.

I tried yesterday to open it up but so far it resisted my attempts to open it up (but I managed to shove the valve in so I have to take of the tyre )

It was packaged in cardboard box, which was wrapped in about 3 times of the cardboard mass in tape (the disgusting type of tape … bit stinky, horribly sticky and if you try to peel it splits in a dozen parts)
Overall is the hub and package a bit dirty

It appears to me that the Phub-141 and Phub-188 are indeed identical motors the only differance is the axle shaft, the 141 is a bit longer than flattened to 10 mm on both ends with a M6 ID thread about 25 mm deep at the ends. I think the phub-188 has an OD thread (M12 ?) or something like that.
There was no hardware on mine just the motor.

Both sides are identical, except for valve and the cable on one side. The cables are quite thin, pretty stiff and have a hard kind of heat resistive insulation as it appears to me (soldering some 4 mm connectors went fine and didn’t melt the insulation).
The black is sadly not anodised but painted and that paint job is sadly also quite poorly made.

So far I only inflate the tyre once (which is kinda hard as the valve is so short) and set up the motor for a quick test (ERPM measurement) after that I tried to open the hub. The screws are blue locktited btw but no problem to remove eventhough the threads seam to be quite rough.

More pictures/tests later.

Jopj · December 20, 2019, 2:19pm

That is some familiar packaging, It took me a while to get that punget tape stench off my hands How did you manage to inflate it, with some kind of long adapter? Mine came inflated so I’ve never done it, but in the future I must. The bit of air lost over the months gives a nice boost to maneuverability, though.