HAYA HB92 V2 Issues

[bevilacqua]

Hi,

as some of you might already know some of our HB92 decks have cracked/de-laminated.
I have heard of 5 issues by now. Last week I visited my parents in Spain and we finally got to talk with the guys that press/cnc the decks (emailing does not work very well with them).

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Possible de-lamination causes:

• Stacked pressing of too many decks:

The glue used in our decks catalyzes with heat when pressed in a heated metallic mold. The issue is that the decks stacked at the ends heat-up/harden much faster, thus preventing the heat propagation to the rest of the stacked decks in the center. They were in a hurry whilst producing them so they could not even confirm us how many they stacked.

• Single sided gluing:

By norm the veneers used in wooden pieces (they do a lot of furniture pieces) are glued in a machine, and the glue is applied on both sides. Our deck veneers are too big for the gluing machine, so they glue was applied by a worker manually, and apparently they applied it only to one side. This potentially may have caused spots without glue.

• Design change (Theory for now, not confirmed):

Lastly, it is possible that the design change weakened the strength of the deck to some extent: we widened the channels by 6mm and the outer chamfer angle was slightly steeper this time around, consequently leaving less wood to support the rider weight/abuse. The prototype sample I tested at home withstood my weight and hard jumping fine, but I weigh ~70kg. Jens (NoWind) has that deck right now, he told me that he intended to use brackets so we sent him the proto deck to be safer (he ordered one after we heard of the first cracked deck). I asked them to make me another sample just to be sure, I’ll report back as soon as I get it.

@NoWind have you tested the deck? with brackets too?

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Future of HAYA:

I would like to openly apology, I am sincerely sorry for all V2 HB92 owners . We do not know how many boards were affected, so we encourage you to test the strength and report back (we already sent an email after hearing of the first incident), don’t be afraid and test it as hard as you want. Naturally all cracked decks will be refunded instantly.

We try to be completely open and we are sure that something like this will not happen again. It is quite a hard hit for us, but we will try to learn from our (even if they are indirect) mistakes.

We will not do any pre-order runs anymore, it creates stress, decisions get rushed and it potentially induces errors/mistakes. We will only sell decks when we have them in stock (if there is still a demand for them) and we will take our time to test each batch/design iteration properly. We’ll also QC all decks from now on.

Thanks for reading, If anything is still not clear please ask here or PM me.

Best, Mathias

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Note: HB83 decks are not affected by the gluing issue. Neither are V1 decks.

[Grozniy]

Very professional decision and solution

[NoWind]

@bevilacqua
Sorry Mathias, not started with the haya bracket build, more a longtherm build i guess, if you want the board for internal tests just let me know. No issue for me if this helps you.

Cheers

[bevilacqua]

No worries Jens, if you can test/(bounce on it) when you get the brackets let me know. That would be quite helpful

[esk8]

Can confirm refund was literally instantly. I will totally buy again.

[Dareno]

Open transparent and professional. Fresh air.

[DJ4se]

Could not be happier with your customer service and transparency. Sorry for the issues on the v2 but these boards are so damn beautiful I’m sure there will continue to be demand for them.

[Skatardude10]

Since knowing about the issues I do feel I have been babying my deck a bit for the past few weeks hoping mine wasn’t one affected by the issues.

Tonight I had to get somewhere in under 10 minutes, no time to baby. A small crack on the road caused a loud popping sound and sure enough my deck delam’d same place as everyone else’s I’ve seen. A refund is what it is, my components are built into this deck. I love this deck. If you make more I will surely purchase, it’s just so clean and simple. For now I guess I’ll work on transferring components back to my previous build.

[bevilacqua]

very sorry to hear this

[Skatardude10]

It’s all good… things are things, things break

[bevilacqua]

I skinned an already broken deck. 1 layer of 350g/m2 GF with a vacuum bag* that I stupidly punctured when trying to push some epoxy out… (quick n dirty work, about 60min…) I also epoxy coated the interior.

*edit: a cheap clothing bag, nothing fancy

I shot a quick video, will do more testing next week and I will transfer my daily to it.

I was wearing 2 backpacks with about 30kg of weight, about 106kg or 233pounds. (maintaining balance was a bit tricky…)

[bevilacqua]

bmwi3, about 1250kg I think…

[bevilacqua]

Hi, I’ve been a week at home working with my father and I have some small updates.

We are in the process of skinning the remaining decks that we have (about 5 of each model), 2 plies of 80g/m2 biaxial glass fibre. After skinning they are sanded and we plan to paint them with a 2k automotive paint (RAL 9021 Grey matte color) and add a lined logo in glossy black (still waiting for the paint, will post pics in some days)

We also met with the CNC guys and they agreed to make a small batch of replacement decks (V2.1). I will modify the design a bit to ensure that even if they make a small mistake in production (which can happen) the board will remain structurally stable. Expected changes: HB83 -> Internal width of the channels reduced from 91mm to 86mm // HB92-> IW 81mm to 79mm and a reduction in the chamfer angle. The finishing of this batch will be exactly like the one before, no glass fiber, natural wood with a multi layer of polyurethane varnish. They will be tested extensively before any replacement deck is sent.

Why are we doing this?

-> We want to be able to offer replacement decks if any other deck fails. Those who need the original internal channel dimensions can receive a skinned deck and those who could use the slightly reduced space can use the V2.1 decks.

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Note: it will take some time till we have 2.1 decks. These will be only replacement decks.

I am sorry it took this long, as some of you might know I study in Germany, whist my parents are in Spain, where we produce the decks. Doing things via Skype and phone calls has its limitations among other problems, that’s why I decided to stop making decks till I’m back home, which will take probably more than a year, maybe two. I’m still motivated, and passionate about esk8, I simply want to be involved directly in the process.

Best,

Mathias

[bevilacqua]

HAYA HB83 33" Short board (Progress)

We tested 2 sample decks that were made last week, these were glued properly. Resuls: Very solid, no sounds or cracking even with hard jumps over it (85kg rider). It assures our assumption that some of the decks were affected by the glue. To further ensure the structural stability on the V2.1 replacement decks the thickness of the sides will be increased by some mm, thus reducing the channel dimensions by just a tiny bit ( Will be still able to hold 4 21700 cells in parallel )

Did the same testing with a freshly pressed HB92 deck today. Held up very well. (the leverage was a tiny bit bigger because the deck was only bolted to the nose)

Like on the hb83 the V2.1 will have a slightly reduced inner channel to ensure the stability even more. I don’t want to risk anything on any potential replacement deck.

[Brenternet]

You’re handling this whole thing like a gentleman Mathias.

[Briman]

I’m a little late to the game but you should only use a cold pressing technique. This eliminates the added heat created from the pressure. How do you apply your glue and what type of glue do you use. They have a gravity feed glue roller and you should always glue both sides. This would help with any issue creates from glue ups

[bevilacqua]

Thanks Brent

[bevilacqua]

They use a gravity feed glue roller on the smaller parts, our decks are glued manually (note that 2 decks are made per stack about (EDIT: 500x1000mm)). I am not sure what exact glue they use, I think it is a Urea-formaldehyde (UF) adhesive. The metal press is heated, but Im also not sure if the heat is really needed or if its only there to accelerate the curing process.

The deck I mentioned before had both sides of the veneer glued.

If we do any other batch we would only use grade-A veneers, would insist on having them pressed individually and have the glue applied on both sides.

[Sender]

I have an absolutely beautiful (and clever) V2 long board I am gearing up for right now. Going to be listed up for sale once complete

Will be of course reinforced with FG as well as as the fabric skin on the deck itself.

@mmaner painstakingly endured my idea and made a work of art. Probably my favorite design he has made to date.

Just you wait!

Mathias, I agree with Brent. You have handled this with the utmost class. Well done. It is very much appreciated in this burgeoning industry that is often times shrouded with doubt and skepticism.

[bevilacqua]

Thank you for the kind words Tim