you don’t need to be recklessly aggressive. part of the skillset you learn is quickly reading the habits of the other racers on track, and being able to adapt to them and applying yourself to take advantage of their weaknesses. even if they are zsporatic, there are ways to find openings and mistakes that can allow you to pass. you’re not going to be spoon-fed top position. you have to work for it.
inexperienced racers can be chaotic, but that doesn’t mean you have to get mad at racing overall for your current lack of ability to strategize.
I wouldn’t really consider myself mad at racing overall, TBH. I’d say I’ve realized that the type of racing I would prefer and the type of racing that most people here would prefer aren’t the same or really compatible. Despite what some have claimed here, in my experience, racing rules aren’t universal, and can be made to encourage or discourage battling vs taking a smooth line and allowing people to pass if they can while you’re maintaining your standard line. I’d call that more hardcore racing vs more casual and safer racing. I honestly don’t want to try to do hardcore racing when I myself and most of the people on track with me are quite inexperienced, and we’re racing on things that are already quite dangerous.
I honestly probably haven’t even hit a couple hundred miles of riding on the board I brought, or maybe did while I was there, and I had never been on a track before. Also, I had to massively loosen my trucks to the point where my board felt pretty unfamiliar, because I couldn’t get around the tight corners well with how I’d been riding my board on streets and trails. I’m nowhere near ready to try to do hardcore racing, and have no interest in trying that anytime soon. I honestly don’t think it’s appropriate for beginners, but if others see it differently, whatever, I just don’t want to be a part of it. I’ll stick to trying to find other ways to go on a track until I’m much more experienced on one.
It definitely should be made clear what the rules are, and that even with complete noobs in slower classes, people are going to try to cut into/across the line in front of you.
I think one of the core concepts that’s not getting across here, is that there is no singular racing line. Nobody went out before the race to paint The Official Racing Line™ down the track so that everybody could agree on where it was safe to ride and where it’s not.
I appreciate what you’re trying to argue here is essentially a case of “rider in front behaving erratically”. But judging the outside racer to be the erratic one relies on being able to judge that his line choice was definitively wrong. A wide entrance and late apex is a legit strategy to get a better run up to a straightaway, so how can you say which racer crossed over The Line™? More importantly, how is a racer in front supposed to have an accurate view of the line choice opinions of the people behind them, so they can conform to the group’s average choice? I don’t want to be in a race where people aren’t looking forward where they’re going.
There will be differences of opinion between people in the race about which line is optimal. There will be objective differences in which line works better for a particular vehicle, based on whether it performs better in corners or straight lines. People will also fuck up their lines sometimes, and don’t deserve to be crashed into a wall for it. And so people are entitled to their line choice, as long as it doesn’t screw with someone else.
Since The Official Racing Line™ doesn’t exist, it doesn’t make any sense to have a safety framework where fouls are judged by being on or off it. Any rule based on figuring out whether someone’s line choice is legitimate doesn’t sound like a reasonable way to keep everyone on the same page from a safety perspective. I’d much prefer “keep from crashing into the guy in front of you, and the guy behind you has to do the same”.
I will say, it would be much easier to agree on what the basic standard line is on a well-used track than a temporary one, because it’s likely to have some rubber or wear on the line. I still don’t think that means we should act like any line is valid and the person in front is always right. If we have no remotely similar ideas about where a reasonable racing line is, then again, I simply don’t want to be on a track in that situation. I figured that while there might be slight variations, most people had a general idea of what a normal line on the track would look like, but maybe not. If not, I’d say that is an issue in itself, though.
Evan already admitted he missed the Apex there.
it was just a half decent defense until I missed the apex on the turn before he went into me.
That is a mistake that people are going to try to capitalize on regardless of what type of racing you’re doing or expecting. That doesn’t mean he deserves to be run off the track, but it does mean that unless you’re going to say no passing on turn exits, he should have been a bit careful. If someone has missed the apex, I don’t see a way they could then come out of the corner shallow that doesn’t involve crossing directly through the path most racers are going to take.
I’m honestly curious. Do you think the other guy was way off the race line? What exactly do you think he should have done? Was his only mistake being too tight to the barriers after they’d already collided or nearly collided? Did he need to brake because Evan missed the apex instead of trying to overtake him? Should he have expected he couldn’t go anywhere near the outside of the turn because Evan missed the apex?
When I ask myself those questions, I don’t really see where his decision-making was bad, at least before the end, where he maybe could have left more space, but again, I think that was after the issues started, and without the prior issues, it may have been okay.
Yep, i said before i think that the overtake at the apex was legit, it’s the exit that was too wide.
He could have slowed down more for the apex to keep that part of the turn tighter (which would have a downstream effect on the corner exit), or used less power on exit so that part didn’t run as wide.
Getting into the weeds of which particular maneuver to make though, is less important than the observation that as the overtaking rider, the inside guy had the best view of the situation and therefore the most responsibility to choose how to maneuver in the first place, to leave the necessary space.
The outside rider can only react to the overtaking attempt once it’s in progress, at which point the inside guy has more control of the situation and the distance from the wall.
He chose to perform the overtake, not the guy on the outside. His decision making went bad when he pushed the overtake speed hard enough to run out the width of the course.
The guy could’ve gotten a good clean lead on me in the straight. He instead just decided to go straight into me. I’ve never complained about the actual pass, that was clean and fair. It’s the squeeze into the wall.
I mean, to me, it looks like Evan would have only used 2/3rds or less of the track if it hadn’t been for the other guy, which I never would have been prepared for. There isn’t a single time the whole weekend when Evan’s line wouldn’t have made me panic-lock my brakes, or collide/nearly collide there. The tightest I took that turn the whole weekend was maybe a foot or two tighter than the other guy did.
I’m still just confused about at what point, if any, cutting a corner tight after going wide at the apex is unacceptable to you guys. If someone misses the apex, do I need to just be prepared to hug the inside wall? That seems like it means I have to slow down too much to ever try to take advantage.
Yeah, I don’t disagree. It’s something we (pro-class racers) should really work to change… new riders are the lifeblood of the sport.
The barrier to entry to the sport is pretty high- a huge part of esk8 racing is getting your board setup dialed in, and that’s hard to do without knowledge and experience. I was/am hopeful that the Meepo MLR makes the sport more approachable, giving a good starting point to new riders.
I’m a very extreme case, but right now I spend 2~3x as much time working on boards than I do riding/racing them, if that gives you an idea.
I’ve been racing for quite some time now and have found that it’s not necessarily blocking someone but defending your position. The ideal line often means opening up a corner to maximise speed through the corner, this opens up the inside so a chasing rider can late brake and slip on through the inside. It’s the most common overtake IMO/IME. When someone comes in through the inside the ideal line is now obstructed as a rider has moved into the space. The rider who’s taken the inside often has sacrificed their exit speed but if they can make the turn they are in front and it forces the original leader to yield to avoid a crash. To avoid this from happening the lead rider can change their line to defend their position and not give the rider behind an opportunity to take the inside but instead force them around the outside. Of course the chasing rider can setup the corner with a high exit speed and try and take the lead rider on the exit instead as the lead rider won’t have optimised their exit speed because they were defending the inside line.
The other part of racing is that if you start in front it’s usually because you’ve earnt it through a good qualifying time. The lead rider has earnt the right to defend their position and often this is a better strategy then to push the limits too much and risk a crash or slide out.
Definitelly not. Actually thats where head-to-head race differs to time trials.
In time trials, you simply go faster and those that can get the fastest times will win.
In head to head, you dont need to be fastest to win, you can use your position to “prevent” the ability of the other rider to use their speed.
Thats why head-to-head is adrenaline. Every moment something wrong can happen - bad start, crash in front of you, inability to pass someone.
Sometimes you are faster at one part of the track and slower in other part of the track. So you can try to block the person in their fast part and use your fast part to jump away. It all bring more variables into play and yes - it means that you can lose even if you are the fastest person. In other words, being the fastest does not guarantee you the win. Speed is only one of the tools you are using.
When you are defending you are actually using defensive line which is intentionally slower, but makes sure you are blocking for example the inside of the corner to prevent the other rider to sneak in. Forcing them to go different entry line then they would normally take, go around the corner and compromise their speed. But you are risking a slower exit, or potentially longer exit line because you generally need to break sooner to make the corner. If you leave it open then even a generally slower driver with good straightline speed might get in first and block you from entering the corner so you need to change the line. This is a cornerstone of racing I guess.
Of course for good racing its important to follow some general rules like
you dont intentionally suddenly hit brakes on the straight in upredictable way
you dont wave from side to side all the time when you have other rider directly behind you (hard to explain easily, but as they have it in f1, you either follow a line or change the line once with)
when you are not clearly in front of other rider you leave them space to fit in along the turn, whether they are outside or inside
I guess in general not intentionally endanger others but try to use your weapons to sneak in front of them or make their line slower if you need to.
I feel you so much! :-D:-D Nobody ever told me racing would be 2/3 of the time spending in the garage ALL THE TIME to be able to race it few times Its just sooo tiring overall. Getting the board to work the way you want and stay competitive is a lof of work. Its very far from just fun racing on track. Thats like only the cherry-on-top tbh
To me, it seems many here act like this is a clear, obvious line in the sand and in my opinion, it is a pretty gray area to someone not familiar with racing/rules.
As I already mentioned, the status quo is going against my outside-looking-in opinion and I’m 100% ok with that. I knew it before I opened my mouth the first time. I’ll happily ask the seemingly-obvious questions so that anyone who hasn’t been esk8 racing or watching NASCAR since the dawn of time can learn what the rest of folks are doing and gray areas can become salient. I don’t need 8 more paragraphs trying to change my mind. The horse has been beat to death.
Now get out of my way and let me back up on my cross.
From my point of view, the 1st just left the door open all the time and at the moment when he wanted to turn in and close the corner you were already in and it wasnt possible.
Of course its always difficult when people are learning and not so used to check around them. But in general on 1st place in a situation like this you just need to lock the corner tight immediately and not give anyone any chance to get in. You just cant ride casually your line like you are alone on the track. As soon as you leave opening, there is a risk someone will try to use it and you better be fast enough to be away sooner then they get there.
If you open the door on 1st and someone can get in your line (meaning they have enough space to get alongside so you cannot cut them out anymore without crashing) then its your fault. If you cut it before they get inside and they crash into you, its their fault, but as it increases risk for you aswell you just want to prevent them from even thinking about it.
Sorry I didnt get to all of the posts before replying, so just saw the comment and were trying to clarify why its not necessarily needed “to get faster” in head-to-head.
Agree its not a natural knowledge. Actually in Europe we are more cautious about this and prefer the time trial race for the non-pro categories. US is just more hardcore in this way But it always has its pros and cons for sure.
We were the beta testers for Dragys “event” feature at ERLs australian national tounament last year. Now that we know how to use it and most of the bugs have been ironed out, its been an absolute game changer for our outdoor events, streamlining the qualifying and grid sorting process.
To streamline our events further, weve decided to only rely on timing for the qualifying process. To reduce the stress on our timing volunteer/s we use a points system for our race heats based on final placings and its been much easier to manage. We still encourage our racers to keep using the gps and majority of them do.
In terms of the phone situation, we all just bite the bullet and race with our phones. I know some of the guys have a secondary older phone specifically for racing with but ive personally crashed several times with mine in my leathers/racing pants without any issues. I know racebox has a standalone unit with built in recording/storage and dragy are currently working on the same thing, however i dont think its as convenient as having live results instantly pushed to your phone and i will continue to use this method myself.
Our lap monitor system is about 95% reliable indoors and about 75% reliable outdoors. We know where the improvements are to be made to make the system fool-proof for our indoor races and will be making the changes to our transponder enclosures and systems over the winter break, but our outdoor issues are still being investigated. We suspect that due to our extreme heat here, the heat bouncing back off the track surface is interfering with the infrared transmittion process between the transponder and receiver. Were going to dedicate a few outdoor sessions to trying things out like laying large white tape over the start/finish line to reduce the heat, try different placements of the receiver and as a last resort start to look at the possibility of mounting the transponders on the helmet. I can already see potential issues with the last option though.
I think ultimately it comes down to the scale of event youre planning to run. At our grassroots level, between running the dragy event feature for outdoors, lap monitor for indoors and using the points system for heats, were on to a good thing.
For larger scale events, to reduce the stress on the the event organiser, id be contracting timing out to a professional (if its affordable) to save the setup and management. We’ve done it in the past and its just one less stressful thing deal with on event day. Those guys typically use rfid, with a line taped to the floor and rfid anklets attached to the riders and in our experience its been seamless.
Its just sooo tiring overall. Getting the board to work the way you want and stay competitive is a lof of work. Its very far from just fun racing on track. Thats like only the cherry-on-top tbh 
