Lol 
I used an alternate address.
“But doesn’t your skateboard already have trucks?!”
“Those aren’t for me Babe, I’m ordering for a friend…”
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I think it’s better to bring this 3 link vs duality discussion in here and not derail @AlexB 's sale thread too much 
Axle height adjustments you are correct about being easier while talking about srb 3 links. On newbee you cannot adjust that. My way of adjusting that on the Dualities was getting a mountainboard deck with long enough tails (tomiboi hellhound, but I would prefer slightly longer tails still) and redrilling truck mounting holes so I have the correct height, although that does affect wheelbase as well of course. Steering angle, well it’s pretty easy to CAD up and print your own angled risers with any angle you want. Though I agree these two adjustment possibilities are better on srb 3 links.
The main thing though where Dualities win out adjustment by miles is bushing formulas. Riptide krank is a formula that is in my opinion best suited where you are working around clearance issues, so the rebound is sort of another way to let you know how much more you got in the trucks.
On an ideal setup for me especially for racing the first clearance issue is when you completely max out the truck’s articulation. I run my front duality with 33 degree max articulation without clearance issues. And that’s so far into the lean that I just don’t need the rebound’s extra signal to know I am about to hit it. To actually be able to get so far into the lean without turning too much I am running low truck angles, 25/10.
So with an axle height like that - center of axle less than 8-10mm below standing platform.
That’s how 33 degree looks on deflated 165mm / 6.5" tires unloaded.
5mm clearance below the deck!!!
A V5 would be scratching it’s belly before this much deck lean.
Bushing wise in rebound from lowest to highest the options I tried are Riptide WFB < Riptide APS < Venom HPF < Riptide Krank. HPF only in other trucks though.
Lower rebound setups allow you to run higher duro bushings for a more stable center, and therefore better straight line stability, but they stiffen up much less near the end of lean, so even with higher duro and therefore more stability in the center you can still turn just as well or in some cases even better.
Let’s demonstrate that with my journey through Krank to APS to WFB now. In every case I am talking about I have a tall barrel front tall chubby rear bushing shape. High rebound Krank 93A feels like it’s on the stiffer side for me deep into the lean, remember I allow more articulation than standard so I experience the stiffening up even more. In order to not stiffen up too much I need less preload. Lower duro bushing + less preload = less stable center. I did not ran this config on the road in dualities though only stood on it stationary. It wasn’t exactly what I was after and already had the APS on hand so just from my previous experience krank vs aps decided on aps.
Then there’s medium rebound APS which I ran at 92.5A and a lot of preload so I had a similar center. It felt like a medium soft setup overall, but definitely appropriate for my weight. It didn’t stiffen up as significantly late into the lean so it made tight turns easier with zero downside compared to krank for stability. It’s my choice of setup for a board built exclusively for carving, the rebound is on point for that. Although when I went from 30/15 to 25/10 and the ratio of steering front to back changed, I had to put in a single krank 93A into the rear because the front felt stiffer then the back. A better solution would have been APS 95A for at least one of the rear bushings, but I didn’t have that on hand. I ran this for a race before I managed to order bushings though, and there I got convinced to give WFB a try at higher duro, so I jumped into WFB right away. And oh boy did that change everything.
So WFB is the lowest rebound bushing that I know of out of all brands. I only ordered the highest duro option for the rear, 95.5A, and the two highest options for the front to give a chance for fine tuning. Well, I ended up running 95.5A all around with a ton of preload rear and medium preload front. The center immediately felt much more stable. But the turns got CRAZY. My first turn on track I managed to stand on two wheels and nearly fell because it was so little rebound that my APS muscle memory went way overboard and maxed out truck articulation with zero effort. I can basically max out my 33 degree front truck articulation with hand it’s so loose. Turns are completely effortless, it’s the most agile setup on track I have ever been on assuming I can get that deck to lean in (needs a tiny bit of speed and grippy tires to really work it’s magic) and the most stable setup as well. As is, 95.5A is still quite soft for my weight but it still ended up my favourite setup that I tried. I would definitely want to try higher duro though.
Not being stuck on Riptide krank as I would be on SRB 3 links is a huge thing for me personally.
Now to be clear. I am not saying Riptide Krank doesn’t have it’s space. For many setups and riding styles it’s a really good choice. But for my style on a raceboard, I have a strong preference towards low rebound.
Then of course the point of lower price, less maintenance and higher durability still stands.
And there’s one more huge advantage, it’s working on them. Just everything is so much more simple and easy, no need to screw around with rod length and threading everything onto the main axle and all that. A bushing swap is less than 5 minutes, anyone who swapped bushings before on 3 links will know that on those if you know what you are doing it’s still at least an hour but if it’s your first time it can easily take half a day.
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Great write up, I agree with everything you’ve said. Changing the bushings on my V5 takes 5+ hours with multiple hands.
I’m running Krank on my set of dualities right now, but want to try your setup sometime. I’ve been wrestling with ways to reduce the rebound on my v5, and each change in that direction has made it easier and easier to ride(read: faster).
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I would love to see an advanced bushing guide for 3-links thread.
A comparison between Duality and 3-links trucks would be a nice thread too.
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I wish I lived in Cali so that I could just show up to one of the I2S sessions and let people try it. I would love to hear your thoughts on it, I think I really nailed it! But part of the magic comes from the low angles 25/10 and from the 33 degree allowed front articulation. On the rear I also allow more articulation than stock, not sure on exact angle but I think it was 4mm of washers stacked under the stock lean stopper screw, and the screw itself acts as the new lean stopper. Which technically I shouldn’t be doing on chubbies but it hasn’t caused issues other than bending a washer. Not sure how close you could get to my setup with your undermount battery though because that deck lean is really steep! Maybe you could try the 9x3.5 slicks as well to gain a bit of ground clearance that you can immediately sacrifice for deck lean?
Also I think you are heavier than me so there’s a chance 95.5A might be way too soft for you. But if you run higher angles maybe they don’t. I think it should be possible to get some 100A specialty made because WFB pivot cups exist in 100A already.
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You might have just convinced me to grab a set.
I’ll have the holy trinity of 3 links, savage1s, and dualitys.
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For those of us ignorant of 3-links… why?
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A comedy of “therefore…” ‘s
They’re in the center of the hanger, which is a threaded rod. The bushings slide down this threaded rod and are pushed/retained/restricted against the Hym joint(the center pivot bit) by nuts.
Therefore, these nuts and everything else on the threaded rod needs to come off in order to slide off the old bushings and slide on the new ones.
If that wasn’t bad enough, this includes the motor plates, which (like everything else) spin off down the threaded rod. However, my motors get in the way of this, both because the wires will get twisted and the motor Cans will hit the deck.
Therefore, the motors need to be removed from the motor plates.
However, the locktited pinions don’t fit through the center slot in the motor plate.
Therefore, I need to remove the pinions with a torch.
Repeat this in reverse for the reassembly, then repeat again for the front.
TLDR; I need to fully rebuild the mechanical drivetrain every time. I’ve done it twice, and it’s a PITA
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A question for @Titoxd1000 and other duality riders.
You can have either 30/15 or 35/10 angles.
Which one you pick? Why?
Absolutely brutal. Even as someone who picks one bushing setup and sticks with it; this sounds painful.
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The default setup has 2x as much steer on the front than rear and with tall barrel front tall chubby rear the same duro for both works perfectly. On my setup I am running 2.5x, and to keep the front feel softer than the rear I need quite a lot of extra preload on the rear. If you increase that ratio to 3.5x I am pretty sure you will need to run a duro softer in the front compared to rear so just be aware of that.
Tito has been running 30/10 I think and I am running 25/10 at the moment, lower angles definitely are fun and feel more like a snowboard. I’ve been also considering trying out 27.5/12.5 when I’ll have the new deck setup, in case the extra wheelbase takes away too much turn for short track, but at the moment I don’t think it will be necessary. Well, at least definitely not until the next time I’ll race at Waldshut.
Back to your question though if you need more straight line stability 35/10 will be the better choice from the two angles you listed, but 30/15 will probably feel more fun for carving, so it really depends on what you are after.
This use case question is also relevant for bushing formulas. High speed is better off with low rebound, carving setup more fun with medium and higher rebound formulas. Since you are looking for rebound between APS and Krank I think you will like 30/15 more, but feel free to experiment with both as angles are very much a preference thing.
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My favorite setup has been 30/10. In order to not scrub to much I stick to at least 33% steering in the rear compared to the front. This will vary depending on tires and hanger width and you may want to scrub in a track scenario… I would definitely recommend trying this setup if you like carving. You can also do in-between if you find it to have to little steering, for example 32.5/12.5. There is a 2.5 degree wedge file in the first post.
For bushings I am running venom hpf 93a tall barrels front and riptide aps 92.5 tall chubbys rear. I like these for best mix of carving and track use. (Long term durability is in question for aps chubby)
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Question for the hivemind:
Do these trucks turn more than channel trucks at the same angles? If so, why?
Mechanically, they are pretty much the exact same principle as channel trucks. A fixed pivot axis and bushings to restrict motion around that axis. Only differences are how the bushings engage and rake/offset from the pivot axis.
When I rode @jack.luis’s board with dualities for ~50 miles, my impression is that these trucks turn a lot more than channel trucks would have at the same angles. (Side note, jackson what angles were your trucks when I rode them?)
The only reason I can think of to explain this is that the deck can lean much further on Dualities than channel trucks due to the differences in how the bushings are compressed.
Thoughts?
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Based on my limited experience with traditional channel trucks and RKPs/TKPs/DKPs, bushing placement impacts engagement and compression.
Channel trucks typically have the bushing contact area at a considerable distance from the kingpin, while the Duality bushings are located directly at the kingpin.
I noticed almost no compression on the softest riptide channel bushings (~60a), whereas the identical hardness cone/cylinder bushings are very compressible on a traditional DKP/RKP/PKP/Duality type truck with a center-located bushing. This might be due to the hollow core and uniform proportion design.
@Titoxd1000 pls correct my explanation if this explanation is incorrect. This is how I understand the design.
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Jackson has his angles much higher than channels would generally
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i have the first gen haero bro, so 30deg tips? and the angled baseplate is +15deg? I have that up front.
So Rocinante is 45deg front and 30deg rear
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I would imagine that the amount of bushing deformation required for the same steering angle on channels is significantly more than with dualities, resulting in a limited steering output in comparison.
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45/30 is reminiscent of how I would setup my RKP trucks and where I started with Duality testing. What I quickly realized is that compared to RKP trucks at the same angle, Dualitys will turn a lot more which in turn would mean you would lean a lot less without changing angles. This is very noticeable on high G turns where the deck wants to stay flat and you are asking your ankles to do all the leaning.
@BenjaminF Compared to channel trucks having the bushing in the center you have more leverage over them and deformation is different like @Ac53n mentioned. Compared to RKP the second pivot carries your weight instead of the boardside bushing, which means less compression and more range of motion.
So less slop compared to RKP and more range of motion than RKP or channel trucks is why I recommend lower angles and also it is just more fun imo.
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Most channel truck bushings are direct compression which limits range because urethane does not compress, it just changes shape. Duality acts on the bushings like a RKP which is deflecting the bushing which allows for more deformation and range.
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During my first ride swapping from 33/18 bn310 channels to 30/15 dualities, I had the feeling that I had more turn for the same amount of deck lean, even though I went to lower angles. How that’s possible though, that I don’t understand.
The main reason though why you felt they turn so much for the amount of deck lean you had, is that the Rocinante is running them at 45/30 while the standard config is 30/15 and I personally prefer even lower at 25/10
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