With the caveat that TB DD apparently do not provide enough torque for wheels larger than 110 mm (or at maximum may be the Trampa Gummies), especially for going uphill and heavier riders (> 90 kg). At least that is what has been mentioned by several (trustworthy ;-)) people, although I have not had the chance yet to actually see for myself.
Where do you plan to drill holes for these? The widest part of the enclosure at the end are the diagonal side bits, and when I measured how much a cable gland would take up, I found it wouldn’t fit if I wanted to route all my motor wires with their bullet connectors on. (I think it was 11mm diameter minimum for all to fit)
For my build I’ve decided to drill small holes for bullet connectors, expoxy them in, and use Haggyboards sensor wire connector for the sensors.
1 Like
Good question. Here’s some shots of the enclosure with the (2) cable gland nuts and the nut for the M16 charge port. The area at the rear has a flat section which is just big enough to fit these three ports.
Foam is to simulate how deep these connectors will be into the inside of the enclosure when mounted:
Clearance for the internal vertical space:
Internal diameter of the proposed gland to use:
That said, I really like the haggy sensor connectors! 
If I end up cramped for space in these glands, this may be a good option to pull out the sensor wires…
3 Likes
Will be interesting to see if having a large enough surface on the inside, but not on the outside, will still be viable. Good luck!
Following with interest! Charge connector choice and cable routing into the enclosure are my next decisions. Still waiting for the enclosure though.
Not sure what’s going on with mine not having the charge wires?
It just arrived a few days ago. Also if you didn’t order the pack converter then you might be waiting again for a long time.
After researching it actually works out because you will just use the “Loading"or"controller” wires to run to the charge port.
Update 2020-03-24
Most of the hardware has now arrived. Time to focus on integration and layout.
Arrived
BMS
The Neptune 15 arrived and as @ningning notes above, it does not come with separate charge leads. I’m wondering if these were present on an earlier version of the BMS and have since been removed to simplify manufacturing. Also, the dimensions are not perfectly accurate. The BMS comes covered in a protective plastic which adds approximately 1mm to the width. Additionally, there are screw heads on the top of the metal enclosure which (along with the plastic cover) results in a height of 14mm (as opposed to the 10mm in the specs).
BF1 Fuses
For fusing the battery leads (see below). Spec sheet here
Motors
eLofty motors and trucks arrived- heavier than I expected. These came with the new adapters (fewer pins) and (1) set screw per can.
Battery
30Q 18650 cells arrived. As noted above, I will be adding fish paper rings to each before fitting into the N.E.S.E. cases.
New
Fuse the Battery Leads
I realized that in making the battery a removable component that I had failed to protect the pack when it was disconnected with the other hardware in the enclosure. After much research I landed on the BF1 fuses linked to above. The current plan is to integrate this fuse directly into the positive battery lead and then heat shrink for protection. This should give me a pack protected from shorts even when broken down to just the N.E.S.E. modules and the main leads.
For my 12s4p battery I need coverage to at least 50.4v, and these fuses work up to 58v. Additionally, they are available in multiple current ratings which should fit all variety of packs. In looking at the spec sheet I decided to go with 60A fuses since they last for 360,000s (or 100 hours) at 100% duty. Even if I were to hit that peak current every once in a while (I’m not going to run my 30Q cells to more than 15A each) it should give me a very long life. At 200% duty it takes 3s for this to pop, and at 300% duty it pops in 0.3s. So (if I have this spec’d right) this fuse should pop before the Antispark dies down stream and well before the cells hit thermal runaway.
An interesting thought occurred to me here: if you were REALLY paranoid you could use these fuses as replacements to the bus bars in an N.E.S.E. build where each P-group would be fused individually. Since the bus bars are 22mm for 18650 and 26mm for 21700 you would only need a little extra spacing between each P group to tie these fuses in directly.
Charge Connector Wiring
In looking at the limited space I have left in the enclosure and the lower current requirement for the charing leads, I decided to use an XT30 connector between the M16 charge connector and the charge / load leads on the BMS. These leads will use smaller 18AWG wire which should save space, be easier to solder to the M16 connector, and have a tighter bend radius.
Mounting Drop Through
I’m going to try to mount the motors drop through initially. It doesn’t appear that I will have any wheel scrub but the jury is still out on motor scrub.
Changed
BMS Battery Leads
Initially I was going to connect the battery leads on the BMS directly to the M5 bolts at the edge of the pack. After realizing that each time I needed to attach / detach the BMS from the battery would require unscrewing the main battery leads, I changed my mind. Instead, I have simply soldered the BMS battery leads to the leads of the “in” side of the AntiSpark. This optimizes a few things:
- It allows for disconnection of all electronics from the battery by unplugging (1) XT60 connector
- It allows for charging of the pack regardless of the state of the AntiSpark. This allows me to continue to monitor P-groups without the VESCs being energized
- It reduces the total amount of hardware inside the enclosure
Also note that this locks me into a charge only configuration for this BMS. I’ve really tried weighing the pros and cons of this approach, and I think I have an interesting solution (see the Research section below)
Balance Wire Routing
After looking at my original plan for routing the balance wires I realized that having all the wires encapsulated between foam pads would be a safer and more robust approach. In the process I realized that I actually needed 13 wires (and not 12) for the initial wire guides. Add to that the new fuse on the battery leads and the BMS parallel connection and the newly revised routing plan looks like:
Complete
Balance Leads
Really happy with how this turned out. My process:
- Cut and attach the foam to the bottom of the N.E.S.E. cases
- Put a ring terminal on each wire and run it through to the endpoint
- Measure the approximate spacing of where the BMS will land inside the enclosure, using that measurement to give a length to the balance leads
- Mark the balance leads with a Sharpie to provide an accurate length for each lead
- Cut the leads to length
- Cut the BMS ribbon connector to length
- Detech one ring terminal at a time to provide extra length in the lead so that the heat shrink would be far away from the soldering.
- Strip, solder, and heat shrink the leads (combining the ribbon wires where necessary to make it work with a 12p pack)
- Pull the completed balance lead harness back toward the N.E.S.E. modules and re-attached the ring terminals to the correct bolts.
Custom XT60 Splitter
I started by clipping the ends off of (3) already completed XT60 pig tails. Then I joined them together with a bunch of solder, sanded off the sharp edges, and isolated using electrical tape. After the 1/2" heat shrink arrives I will likely wrap the whole connector. This allows for the best routing of wires inside the enclosure
Extend VESC XT60
I needed to extend the XT60 connector on one of the VESCs in order to plug it into the splitter correctly.
What’s Next
- Adding the fuse to the positive battery lead
- Protecting the N.E.S.E. bolts
- Binning the 30Q cells for matching voltage per P-group
- Fish paper the 30Q cells
- Dropping the 30Q cells into the N.E.S.E. cases and screwing down the lids
- Plugging in the BMS to the balance leads for test bring up and programming of the BMS
- Soldering the charing leads to the M16 connector
- Test charging the pack
- Testing drop through mounting of the trucks and motors to the deck
- Finalizing foam placement in the enclosure
- Wire routing for the motor leads and sensor wires
Research
BMS Emergency Notification
The BMS is set to cut off “downstream” power if it enters a fault state. Since I will be using the BMS in a charge only capacity, this doesn’t directly affect board behavior
however
I thought if I could use the charge leads to light an LED, I would know that the LED would be lit only when everything was in optimal health. When the light goes out then I would know the BMS had detected an error, and I could safely slow to a stop and investigate. There are some very interesting debates on these forums over how much a BMS should intervene in the case of a problem. It seems that (at least at this point) a good way to know that the BMS sees a problem without throwing the rider might be a dummy light. Research will be focused on how to implement this or (even better) how to invert it so that the light only comes on when a failure is detected.
9 Likes
Interesting approach. Doesnt the Neptune have a port for a buzzer? Auditory warnings might be more effective at quickly letting the user know of an issue in a timely manner.
Really loving the writeup, and the explanation of methodology. Great stuff
1 Like
Clean work 
Don’t forget to use red loctite on the kegel adapter pins 
2 Likes
you have taken all the guess work out of my build using the Neptune, thank you sir
3 Likes
Please tell us how the Maker-X SV6 ride, I love the way they look and want to make a gokart-type thing with 2 of them.
1 Like
Where did you buy your motors from? And when?
I really love this build thread, it leaves nothing to the imagination
I ordered from esk8supply on 3/9. You can check my entire Bill of Materials here.
Thanks very much- I enjoy doing documentation as part of my professional life, so to have a chance to apply that skill to a personal project is very rewarding. I’m hoping some of my learnings and mistakes can help other riders in some way. 
4 Likes
Update 2020-04-10
Part way through integration with battery pack and BMS completed. Drop through mounting also finished.
Arrived
Janux Quattro 4.25" TB DD Hubs
Yep, I know that I’m using eLofty drives, but word on the street was that the 5 pin eLofty adapters would fit the TB DD hub pattern. In addition I’m leaning heavily toward the 6" Evolve tires and wanted to validate that Evolve tires fit on these hubs. After getting the parts in I’m happy to report success on both fronts.
M5 Hardware
Rather than going with standard #10 hardware for mounting the trucks, I decided to use M5 hardware instead. This should also allow me to replace the stainless bolts on the eBoosted enclosure with black bolts (which fits the board aesthetic better). Having common hardware between the trucks and the enclosure mounts simplifies the parts list slightly.
1/2" Heat shrink
This allows me to complete the positive lead on the battery pack by giving rigidity to the in-line fuse.
Kapton Tape
It ends up that the enclosure is just a bit too narrow in the middle to fit all the N.E.S.E. caps. As such, I’ll use Kapton tape to cover the remaining bolts of the enclosures to minimize the chance of short.
XT30 Pigtails
I wanted to connectorize the charge port and since the charge current is ~4A, XT30 will be sufficient for this.
New
New Button
The Neptune 15 is a very full featured BMS. As such, it has its own power button which is required for proper function (more on this below). The button which is included is small and flimsy, so I’ll need to order a new button (latching not momentary) that is capable of panel mount and install it next to the AntiSpark button at the front of the enclosure. This button will also need to include an in-line connector to maintain N.E.S.E. maintenance access.
Changed
Button Move
Looking at how packed the rear of the enclosure is getting, I decided to relocate the AntiSpark power button to the front of the enclosure. This will require extending the leads between the button and the PCB, for which I’m considering using a simple 3 Pin ATX fan extender cable. Also note that these leads will run across the top of the battery pack, which means they must include a connector between button and PCB in order to maintain the ability to easily service the N.E.S.E. modules.
Complete
BMS Battery Leads
Completed the rebuild of the positive pack lead using the in-line fuse. The picture below is the naked lead. The heat shrink covered lead can be seen farther down.
N.E.S.E. Bolt Coverage
The eBoosed enclosure is just a little too narrow at the middle to fit the N.E.S.E. pack with the bolt covers on. As such, I’ve used some Kapton tape to cover the bolts on the pack edges in order to minimize the chance of short.
30Q Binning, Fish Paper, and Installation
I binned all the 30Q cells, but there wasn’t a single one out of the 50 that was move than 10mV out of alignment. I added fish paper rings the positive end of each 30Q and dropped them all into place in the pack.
Here’s a shot of the pack with the lid securely fastened into place.
Charge Port Soldering
I had a heck of a time getting the solder cups to behave when soldering the charing port. Finally got XT30 pigtail on and heat shrink covered the leads at the charge port:
Next was adding the XT30 pigtail to the load/charge leads of the BMS:
Finally I attached the whole charge group together:
BMS Setup and Test
Next was testing the BMS. Interestingly, the power on test only requires connection of the balance leads but also requires the connection of the power button to the BMS (latching not momentary). I had not taken this into account to this point so I ordered a panel mount button to fulfill this function. After attaching the included power button I was able to test the BMS using the Android App:
Once in the app, I customized the BMS settings. Anything not on this list I did not change from default:
| Section | Setting | Value | Comment |
|---|---|---|---|
| Dashboard | Guard Bar Lowest | 38.4V | 3.2V / cell |
| Dashboard | Guard Bar Lowest Alert | 40V | 3.3V / cells |
| Dashboard | Guard Bar Highest Alert | 49.8V | 4.15V / cell |
| Dashboard | Guard Bar Highest | 50.4V | 4.2V / cell |
| Dashboard | Dashboard | Voltage | Displays Pack Voltage |
| Dashboard | Cell Bar Lowest Alert Zone | 3.2V | |
| Dashboard | Cell Bar Highest Alert Zone | 4.15V | |
| Device | Cell Number | 12 | 12s |
| Device | Battery Type | Li-ion | |
| Device | Cell Voltage High | 4.10 | Increase Cell Longevity |
| Device | Cell Voltage Low | 3.20 | Increase Cell Longevity |
| Device | Cell 0V Margin | 25mV | Threshold to prevent never-ending charing if calls cannot balance closer than this |
| Protection | Charge Current Limit | 6A | Adapter can only supply ~4A |
| Protection | Temperature Limit | 65C | Termistor will only be near cells, so temp threshold should be notably lower than 80C |
| Protection | FET Temperature Limit | 70C | Unlikely we’ll hit this in the current charge only configuration |
| Charge / Balance | Cell Balance Delta (mV) | 50 | How far apart P-groups get before balance charging kicks in |
| Charge / Balance | Stop Charging CV Current | 0.10 | Threshold to prevent never-ending charging if calls cannot balance closer than this |
Battery Pack Charging
After customizing all my BMS settings, I verified pack charging using the Android App
Drop Through Mount Test
Using the M5 hardware, I mounted the trucks to the board drop through. Will need to test for motor and wheel bite later.
Anyone used backing frames for drop through mounting before? Considering that the majority of the impact will be absorbed by the pneumatics, I’m leaning toward not using them.
What’s Next
- Finalizing foam placement in the enclosure
- Wire routing for the motor leads and sensor wires
- Testing wheel bite and purchasing tires
- Testing motor bite and (possibly) purchasing harder bushings
- VESC programming
- Remote Programming
- Bench testing of fully integrated system
Research
Nothing in addition to previous posts.
4 Likes
I use Moonbeams on my drop-through setups, but over-tightening my hardware has caused them to crack a bit, so those Riptide frames are probably the best option if you care about protecting your deck in those spots.
2 Likes
Super clean build 
, can’t wait to see the finished product
Update 2020-04-17
Great progress. Bench tested and ran into a problem I could use some help with (see below)
Arrived
Bones Swiss 6 Bearings
Decided to go with some quality bearings for the build
Evolve 6" Tires
I cranked down the trucks to just before the bushings started to bulge and I was still able to get the 7" tires to impact the board relatively easily. Even though I really like to the look of the 7" tires I decided to go with the 6" Evolve tires instead. These ship from SoCal and arrived quickly. Here’s a shot comparing the 6" and 7" tires on the Janux 4.25" hubs:
Flipsky VX2 Remote
I ordered this about 5 weeks ago from banggood and it finally arrived. I love the feel of this remote in the hand, the bright screen with telemetry, and the rechargeable battery. The thumb wheel feels solid and appears responsive.
Latching Waterproof Button
To enable control of the BMS from outside the enclosure, I needed a latching, waterproof button. I like the quality here but it’s a bit big (hole diameter is ~0.7"):
New
No major additions to the design at this time.
Changed
Motor Spacers
As part of the integration process I began putting together the hubs, adapters, bearings, tires, etc. and ran into an interesting issue. I’m having aluminum spacers made and will need to get longer M5 socket head bolts to mount the adapters to the motors. This should allow a near flush mount of the adapter against the hub.
Complete
Test Wiring Complete
All hardware attached as per the wiring diagram. Power buttons work and LEDs light up.
Remote Programming
Powered on the remote and adjusted the settings.
- Battery Cells: 12
- Pole Pairs: 14 < Can someone verify this please? I cannot seem to find definitive data on the 58kv motors.
- Speed Option: mph
- Wheel Type: HUB motor
- Wheel Diameter: 150
- Throttle Calibration: Completed
- Pairing: Completed
- ESC Type: FSESC
VESC Programming
Watched videos, read, and reread the VESCtool Manuals. Started cautiously.
Auto Connect
- Connection to Primary VESC immediately successful
- Firmware needed updating. Updated to 4.2.
- Disconnected, connected to 2nd VESC. Updated 2nd VESC firmware to 4.2.
- Disconnected, reconnected to primary VESC.
Setup Motors FOC
- Medium Outrunner
- Battery Cells Series: 12
- Battery Capacity: 12.000 Ah
- Direct Drive: Checked
- Wheel Diameter: 150.00 mm
- Run Detection Button- Success! Both motors detected and settings seem reasonable.
Setup Input
- PPM Remote
- Didn’t change anything on first screen
- Didn’t change anything on next screen
- Finish- tested: nothing!
- Checked wiring schematic vs VESC connector and shuffled the pins around.
- Tested again: Remote makes motors spin and I get full telemetry on the VX2!
Bench Test (partial failure)
This is where the problem arose. The remote is super sensitive, just a small flick past center dead zone and the motors attempt to go full speed. Once they get to nearly 100% duty cycle one (or both I can’t tell) appears to vibrate and loses most of its speed before trying to ramp up again. It sounds bad:
Debugging:
- Disconnected CANbus cable
- Connected VESC1 to motor1, ran Setup Motors FOC- success. Spun motor up to full- one drive spins up, no vibration, remote still super sensitive.
- Connected VESC1 to motor2, ran Setup Motors FOC- success. Spun motor up to full- one drive spins up, no vibration, remote still super sensitive.
- Connected VESC2 to motor1, ran Setup Motors FOC- success. Spun motor up to full- one drive spins up, no vibration, remote still super sensitive.
- Connected VESC2 to motor2, ran Setup Motors FOC- success. Spun motor up to full- one drive spins up, no vibration, remote still super sensitive.
- Connected CANbus cable again- both drives spin up and vibration is back
- Changed remote to VESC2, both drives spin up and vibration is still present
- VESCtool / App Settings / PPM / General Tab / Multiple VESCs Over CAN: Changed to False, wrote change to VESC- one drive spins up, no vibration, remote still super sensitive.
- Turned on stream realtime data and stream realtime app data, VESCtool / App Settings / VESC Remote / General Tab / Control Type: Changed to Off, wrote change to VESC.
- Set remote to mode H. Pushed remote thumbwheel full forward: VESCtool reports 99.2% throttle
- Set remote to mode M. Pushed remote thumbwheel full forward: VESCtool reports ~75% throttle
- Set remote to mode L. Pushed remote thumbwheel full forward: VESCtool reports ~50% throttle
- VESCtool / App Settings / VESC Remote / General Tab / Control Type: Changed to Current, wrote change to VESC. Once remote gets past standard 15% deadzone, motor speed goes to full before VESCtool reports remote getting to 25% throttle.
Help Needed
VESC Output for given Remote Input
From the above testing and debugging it appears that the VESC output to the motor is set to ramp at a rate at least 10x that of the remote input. I have looked around the tool, the manuals, and the forums but I’m failing to find a location where this can be manipulated. I have tried adjusting the Throttle Curve but even at -80% Exponential this change only makes the most minuscule difference. I don’t need to change the curve, I need to change the multiplier. For example, I would assume at 50% throttle I would hit 50% motor speed and at 100% I would hit max motor speed. Can someone point me in the right direction here?
eLofty 58kv Pole Pairs
I’m seeing conflicting information on how many pole pairs the 58kv motors use. If someone who uses these drives could verify this info that would be helpful.
What’s Next
- Fix VESC Programming
- Bench testing completed without failures
- Get tubes and tires mounted
- Get spacers installed and adapters mounted
- Mount wheel to the adapters
- Finalize foam placement in the enclosure
- Wire routing for the motor leads
- Wire routing for the sensor wires
- Wire routing for the buttons
- Mount buttons, cable glands, and charge port to enclosure
- Mount enclosure to board
- Test ride
Research
Nothing in addition to previous posts.
2 Likes
20 magnets
4 Likes
Nope. Not how current mode on vescs work. Your remote controls the torque / acceleration of the motors, and without any load on them (i.e. bench testing) it’s only normal that they go up to max speed quite fast.
Those loud sounds from your motors are a bit worrying though. You should ask in the elofty thread if anyone has experienced something like that.
1 Like