Im having trouble with very predictable wheel chatter when I ride my abec11 107mm 78a black wheels. Every time I lean in to a turn they start skipping sideways to the point where I have lost my confidence in them.
I return to my generic 70mm 82a solid core wheels and the problem is gone.
So the main difference to look at them both is the plastic core of the abecs.
Do plastic cores induce chatter?
I wore the urethane off the plastic core wheels that came with my backfire belt drive esk8 without experiencing chatter so my experience tells me no, the core is not to blame.
Is the offset core perhaps causing it?
Next difference is the diameter.
Do big wheels chatter more than small wheels?
Hardness?
Its the softer 78a that is giving me trouble. The 82a is solid AF.
Usually softer means more grip right?
Compound?
The abec11s are slippery to touch. I kind of felt that this was the cause. I actually roughed the running surface up with sandpaper tonight hoping to eliminate the problem but still it chattered like crazy. No dice there.
They need to be broken in, the slick shiney layer needs to be worn off.
Do lots of progressively harder and harder carving, or do some carving + sliding to wear off that layer quick. After the shiney layer is gone they won’t chatter, they will break free smoothly and much more predictably.
I think I found my answer in the side profile.
The abec has a rounded obtuse angle that offers too much support to the outside of the wheel and promotes side slip where as the other has an acute angle that promotes flex/grip.
The filet on the rim of the ABECs is to keep them from chunking. You just need to break them in. It’s a much larger and heavier wheel, so it takes a little time.
It also adds a lot of stiffness and thats exactly how they feel, too stiff to grip, so they dont conform to the road surface and skip sideways.
I really dont believe that will change no matter how worn in they become.
I think they are a high speed straight line friendly wheel and Im trying to do low speed big complete turns on them
I guarantee you dont turn like I do, so we have different requirements from our hardware.
What suits you perfectly, fails me.
Please dont get upset about it and have a think about what I said regarding the lack of conformity of the wheel. It makes perfect sense to me but you dont comment on that.
I rapidly accept and discard ideas on my way to the truth, becoming attached to an idea can be a real downfall in progression. Thats why I listened to your theory, considered it but moved in a different direction with my though process, but you didnt consider my theory.
Tear strength of the urethane as well, some wheels don’t chatter because they just paint lines of urethane on the road like sidewalk chalk.
Core size as well, if you have large masses of unsupported urethane, then it can flex and grab and cause chatter.
Hardness/temperature
There’s two types of sliding, greasy slides and glassy slides. Greasy slides are softer than peak grip, and they have urethane that tears away. And there’s glassy slides where urethane is harder than peak grip, and it just slides across the pavement without giving up material.
Chatter is going to happen around peak grip.
Another thing would be riding without spacers, having spacers but not having the wheels tight enough, undersized spacers, or worn out bearings that have free play.
Diameter shouldn’t really matter, but for the same core a bigger wheel will have more unsupported urethane
Last thing would be wheel coning.
A well worn wheel with a nice cone shouldn’t chatter.
However a badly coned wheel might go the other extreme, and start getting the old hop and grab.
If you’re really interested you can listen to The Professor prattle on about it.
What an amazing reply Chainy.
I will go through everything you offered in detail tonight, thank you so much.
I would actually describe the feeling of my slide as a density slide. The wheel is too dense and bounces over the top of the road surface, kind of like a skimming rock. Im tempted to grind the sidewalls out on the abecs to prove it
If I hit it like this I believe I can transform the way these wheels ride to suit they way I need them to ride, which Im completely aware is not how everyone needs them to ride.
Hmm, ride them out a little and if it still isn’t working then I’d try something else. Perhaps if they’re a little more broken in, there will be enough grip for you anyway
The recommendation on spacers is something I’ve overlooked… it’s a solid recommendation, you need to be able to tighten down your axle nuts all the way and your wheels still spin free with no resistance.
Also, @mmaner was correct, your wheels still are not broken in… it’s clear as day from your picture. Before you go cutting your wheels up work on breaking them in. I thought the same thing with my set of superflys, even though i’ve been doing downhill, sliding, and riding flywheels since 2004 and reflex urethane since ~2006 and it still caught me off guard the unpredictable chatter and slipping out until I realized I probably just needed to break them in more. Trust me, break them in more… slide them, carve them… if you wash them with water and there is still any bit of shineyness they aren’t broken in enough. Once they are broken in, they will not have the same chatter / unpredictable breaking looose. You will eventually have much better grip and progressive loss of grip into slides as opposed to sudden loss of control.
Today I will rough them up some more on the running surface and report back but trying to carve with them until surface is broken in is a fairly dangerous pastime lol.
I see lots of wheels come with a stone ground running surface from the factory, which seem slike a great idea to me especially on round lip wheels like these.
Your picture, I mean its hard to tell without it being a super close up, but it still seems to be a bit glossy with the smooth texture from the mold.
What we used to do with our big flywheels to make them perform better while new and having a ton of urethane on them would be to reduce the contact patch by cutting a groove in them.
This was before I was documenting stuff very well, but you can make it out in this pic
I wouldn’t be too quick to modify the wheels unless you’re comfortable with “Well that sure didn’t work” as a possible result. My biggest concern with changing the lip/side profile is consistency between wheels.
Also there’s another really good wheel video out there better than the one I posted. I just need to track it down.
Chris Chaput is the man with the answers when it comes to wheels.
