es8Mc - electric skate motor controller?
My 2c/p
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Reasons a trade mark can not be in-forced
- The trade mark is a term that is generic and commonly used in the relevant trade.
Thatās is the law so
VESC
- VESC is commonly used in the ESK8 Trade there for void of TM law.
- VESC is only used to represent Trampa under BV agreement
0 voters
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If you know where the V in the VESC comes from, then from historical use itās already a trademark by the owner and creator. It is not something the community created for itās own use, so no not anyone claim fair use of it.
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What actually makes the strike on @Lee_Wrightās video more egregious, is that it abuses a system that does not exist for the purposes that it was likely used for. If a video had VESC in the title, and didnāt show a VESC, but showed someone calling something a VESC that wasnāt a VESC, then thatās not what the strike is actually for. It is for content that is owned by someone, being used without permission. This is video/audio that is used without license. It doesnāt apply to the subject matter of the content itself. Lee created the content himself, using his own footage, his own thoughts and opinions, on an object he had in his hands. Nothing about that has to do with the striking system on YouTube, and I think they know that. Which is why theyāve so far chosen not to actually comment on the strike and instead have chosen to write what looks like childish digs at Lee and his channel, as well as call into question his character, while ignoring all commentary on their own.
Here are the pages relating to filing a strike against a chanel:
If you dig further, youāll see that thereās a SPECIFIC page about Trademark infringement. Right here:
And if you look, it says:
YouTube is willing to perform a limited review of reasonable complaints and will remove content in clear cases of infringement. To help solve disputes, YouTube forwards each trademark complaint to the uploader before taking any action. This lets the uploader address any potential Trademark issues.
It doesnāt seem like Lee received any notification on resolving this, because then he wouldnāt have a strike on his channel. Had he, I think Lee has the wherewithal to deal with it in a way that would avoid the strike on his channel.
I canāt say for certain then, what exactly was done, but if I had to guess, a copyright claim was filed instead, leading to the removal of the video without prior attempts at remedy.
Thatās about as shady as it could get, if it were the case. Itās using the wrong system, in a way it wasnāt intended for. And that paints this type of behavior in a darker light. One that cements that as my own channel grows, I will be making sure to not include any Trampa items in it ever. Does that matter? Probably not, but this kind of behavior here is certainly costing more customers than it had to.
In an industry this small, the personal image of those behind a brand have as much an impact on choices as the products themselves, and itās a shame one of the larger names in the industry doesnāt seem to care about that at all.
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It was a trademark dispute Mario and yes you are correct, I never got any options on it and no notifications. I have spoken to Ben about it and he said he decided to not email me and went straight for the complaint to youtube because based on what Frank had told him, he didnāt think Iād listen.
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Pretty sure only person none gives a fuck about orders and complaints is Frank.
Ben, maybe. He is the rightful owner to that trademark.
Frank, I couldnāt care less, would need to get lawyered up and get ready to spend
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That actually kind of makes it worseā¦that Vedder was used to attack content by convincing him that you wouldnāt have listened. Which is obviously untrue because you have already in the past removed content of your own accord when it was problematic for a friend.
Which points further that this wasnāt actually about protecting trademark, but just trying to be a thorn in someoneās side.
Even more unfortunate.
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This was my attitude, I have told frank publicly here I donāt care for protecting his brand. Ben though, I view him in the highest regards.
I can understand Ben being upset about the word VESC being used inappropriately, but itās been happening for years and nobody else has had content removed.
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Why is there so much drama again. AFAIK if you are capable to be a contributor to the project, you will find the right channel to reach Ben. @Trampa is just trying to protect ppl from using potential fault release of modified Vesctool.
But on the other hand I disagree on the 10k on merging Unity & Stormcore into FW5. I was there when it was happening and I appreciate the weeks of hard work Ben and Jeff put in. And AFAIK Jeff had already have a new tool and FW for Stormcore just like the Unity. And Ben insisted on merging the two. Thatās why the original plan of having a La Croix Vesctool was deviated. And now Stormcore user has to use the official Vesc-Tool. Iām not complaining as an end user for these changes but idk if claiming 10k spent is justified when you are just paying it because of Benās sole discretion. If you are funding this project you need to have authority to influence where money needs to be spent. Looking from the outside with slightly more info than others, it looks like you are just funding benās personal project if you claim all the changes and update is so open sourced that thereās no private commercial value to Trampa.
Just sayingā¦ thereās some contradiction here.
My 2cents on copyright strikes. Ben gives no shit about you. And stop complaining.
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The core issue is software confusion. Without a TM, a develloper canāt make his work distinguishable in the market. Total confusion about origin, versioning would happen very fast. That would impact safety a lot. A level of quality wouldnt be guaranteed and third party fuckups would fall on the projects reputation. Here the TM serves as origin of source identifier. I guess no one has as problem with that fact.
A software release needs its own identity, just like we all have our own names.
If it comes to HW, a branding is essential. As a manufacturer you want your product to stand out and you want it to be different and distinguishable. In consequence you give your device a brand name. Itās easy and beneficial. Enertion has done ot with Focbox, Lacroix named their ESC Stormcore, both examples show that it is zero issu to follow that path. There is zero disadvantage in trade if you do things right, and stating VESC interoperability and compatibility is granted anyway. So there is no real life issue. Itās benefical to create brand, not a spoiler.
The issue arises when manufacturers fail to create brand identity and rather use the project identity in trade. Imagine JP would have used āenertion ESC based on VESCā in trade. He was clever enough to create a grippy name. Focbox was born. Good brand name choice, congratulations!
A OS project is a bit like a big party. Without a certain set of rules, the location will soon end in a mess, some people will behave, some people will empty the bar, others will carry out the furniture or demolish something. Without a minimal set of house rules and respect towards the host, things will end in a mess.
OS projects have identity, and itās not shareable in trade. They deliver knowlege and give away a lot at no cost and stimulate development of technology. But that doesnāt mean you can do what you want. GPL terms need to be respected and identity is not part of the shared package of knowlege. Same the other way around. If OS projects make use of third party code and integrate that code, they still need to use their own identity. Again, Itās about the knowledge and code, not about identity.
Also itās about the freedom of source code. Itās not nice to see OS sources locked down and offered for sale. Itās GPL violating and canāt be in the interest of the community.
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Itās not about money. I just think that people here have little clue how much work it is for a develloper like Benjamin. A guy like him would need 100K+ per year to sustain such a project.
All we can do is try to reach a level that makes it sustainable financially.
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So this is why you refuse to listen to a community? This is why you come to the forum and do this thing you do? All of this can be taken care of privately and simply with an email or PM.
PR is a thing Frank. Youāre absolutely horrible at it to be honest. You should hire somebody for the benefit of the OS and TM your defending.
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Guess what, most donāt respond. If you kindly ask usually also nothing happens especially if violations are intentionally. Most TM owners usually make someone suffer financially very hard, and then let everyone know. Simply hit someone really hard, so that others will think twice if they dare to do the same. Thatās the common practice. For OS projects its not the nicest way forward though. And then you have China, where IP isnāt a thing reallyā¦
Letās be clear: you misused YouTubeās reporting tools to do this.
Care to comment on this @Trampa?
Did you contact Lee before filing this improper copyright claim? That could have prevented his account gaining an unearned mark, clearly he and Benjamin worked out a compromise.
This is what I have been concerned about in regards to your conflict of interest trying to gatekeep an open source project, which shares a name with your product.
In all of my years working in open source development and within that community, Iāve never seen a project representative publicly cause conflict like this. This does not sit well with me. Exclusionary practices are anti-OS ethos.
Iāll be having a chat with Benjamin directly on this topic.
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Lee stated that he will continue to call every piece of HW a VESC. He then made the Stormcore video and intentionally confused brand. Again, he didnāt respect the matter. Next video he took it furtherā¦
Where do you draw the line? Itās behaviour like my kids would show: letās test the limits.
He also knew Ben didnāt agree on the previous video. Why take it further and intentionally cross lines that are known as set edges of acceptable behaviour?
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I find this whole thread wildly amusing. Especially since everyone is fighting over VESC when VESC is basically the bottom of the barrel ESC. Noisy, inefficient, blow up all the time. Vesc Tool is over complicated bloatware. Its open source so of course every fucking factory out there is going to try and make a dime on it because its stupid quick and easy to just toss more vesc based garbage out there that streets faces when caps pop and drvs blow and built in eswitches fail.
I have a better ESC in my fucking koowheel. But thereās nothing anyone can do about it but do what people like @Lee_Wright do and try to find the least garbage of these garbage controllers and post about it.
Somebody fucking build a better controller already and finally nail that coffin shut. Fucking christ.
This his OPINION and heās FREE TO STATE IT. What you did was a total asshole move, Frank.
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Regardless of your opinion on what words people use to describe ESCs, you submitted false information in your report to YouTube and misused it.
How do you justify underhanded tactics like that? Two wrongs donāt make a right, and your actions are undeniably worse than a disagreement over nomenclature.
The core issue at hand is that you decided to name your product after an OS Project, and are now trying to fight back the tide of human language and freedom of speech as a result. Not only is that unhealthy for the project and community, itās souring your own brands public perception in the process.
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can i get an amen?
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Amen
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Imagine BV would start a new project tomorrow, manufacturers would simply use that new identity.
They wouldnāt grant him identity, neither for software nor for HW.