The battery builders club

I think the idea would be that a semi abrasive surface like the inside of an enclosure could be made more abrasive when coated in kapton adhesive and pulverized kapton. Kapton is much more easily worn down so maybe having none is better

I’m not sure either way. I need kapton on P groups quite often to keep the fishpaper on there so I hope not, although if im honest if there is a large amount of rubbing going on I don’t think anything will stop it eventually wearing down, i’ve seen epoxy fibreglass board worn through before…

Haha yeah the inside surface of Alan’s enclosures are pretty rough.

You dont need to quantify or qualify any of these variables if you can do side-by-side comparison testing in the same environment. Then it’s just up to which lasts longer :man_shrugging:

For sure, the example I gave has several things that contributed to the accelerated abrasion.

I’m simply wondering if the abrasion would have taken longer to tear through the pack if the fish paper hadn’t been covered with sticky adhesive.

I’m not talking about the layer of robust tape, I’m talking about the layer of gummy adhesive between the tape and the surface of the fish paper. I’m speculating that the adhesive could cause the fishpaper to break down quicker, because now the surface of the fish paper and whatever is pressing into the pack have an adhesive layer to bond them together and then tear fibers off the fishpaper.

One sec, I think I can explain my point better with a video.

Yes, I’m in the same boat. I really hope I am totally wrong about this. I’m just worried that I might be right.

This is a dramatization of my point. I understand that there are a large number of ways in which this situation does not represent what happens inside a PEV. Now with that out of the way;

What I’m showing here in the video is that when you have a smooth thing rubbing across fishpaper (in this case, another piece of fishpaper) then they glide easily. When you add a layer of adhesive into the mix, it adheres to the surface of the fish paper and tears up fibers from it, causing it to break down much quicker.

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It sounds to me like you’re going to have to buy some equipment to test things.

Use my promo code “science” at Adam & Eve for 10% off your testing setup purchase. :sunglasses:

Edit:

…get it…? Cuz… vibrations…abrasion…
Kachow.

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Here’s my “Yes babe, I’m taking out the garbage” level test I set up in two minutes.

Just a starting point. Fish paper, and one piece with fiber tape.

Tool used for abrasion:

After 20 seconds:



After just under a minute of heavy going:

In this case, it seemed like the tape was more of a lubricant and didn’t deform or tear for a while as the paper was dusting apart.

Once it tore, the hole formed slightly later than the bare paper, but not very much later.

I’ll try another test soon.

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opens battery builders club

sees a bunch of long ass essays

closes the thread

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This is a good test, thanks for putting in the effort!

Think you could add kapton into the mix as well? So one fishpaper control, one fiber tape+fishpaper, and one kapton+fishpaper?

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This is why most packs built in factories use the FR4 protective sheets I assume

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But they leave out the most important ingredient.

Love

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They replace it with sand. Thats just as good right?

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Yep thats a good point.

Speaking of FR4 protective sheets, does anyone have some Amazon/AliExpress/Alibaba links for this stuff? I have a couple Alibaba vendors who keep emailing me wanting to sell me several hundred pounds of it, but I just want to order a small amount to play around with. The only stuff I have been able to find on Amazon are like 1mm thick and totally rigid. I want some of the 0.2mm stuff that’s flexible to test against fish paper.

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No, but keep me in the loop there. I’d be pretty keen to get some too

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I would also tend to agree with this

That stuff is crazy lol

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Damn, not cheap

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Not in small quantities at least. I’m sure the price per sheet is an order of magnitude (or two) lower in 100-1000kg lots.

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Its used by knife makers if you want to try and find a cheaper local source. Mcmaster carr has it McMaster-Carr too

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Haha shit i was just looking at that site the other day after watching a Makers Muse video :sweat_smile::man_facepalming:

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Yea that’s where I learned about the knife maker thing too :joy:
There are a bunch of other links in the description too, we can probably get away with shittier G10 because a bit of bending doesn’t matter as much. But for something quicker and local I think those prices are pretty good

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