I’m totally convinced that these people are just entirely wrong. Skill issue probably
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I absolutely loved my matrix IIs while I had them - but at the time I didn’t try better trucks on an esk8, just cal2 based geometry and dkp. I even loved it on the stock bushings. But then I decided to try the riptide bushings for them - large upgrade. IMO the precision channels I switched to felt like a sidegrade after that kinda. A little better in some ways, a little worse in other ways.
The thing though is that the kingpin bushings always just went bad. Even the moon ones didn’t last longer than 9-12 months for me and you can’t get them anymore. Once they go bad you get wobbles at speeds where you are not expecting a wobble. If your ones are holding up still - great for you.
And channel trucks feel tighter the more you lean, they have a very progressive bushing feel with a loose center. To get the center tight, turning also tightens up. This is a feel that can feel nice for carving and cruising, decent for jumps but is bad for speed. Can you go fast on them? Sure. But you are 100% compromising some steering.
Not to mention this progressive feel makes wobbles harder to control. When I got wobbles on channels I always wiped out, never managed to save it. When I got a wobble on Dualities with WFB it was because I didn’t realize that I had literally zero preload on my rear bushings. I noticed the little preload causing easier steering, but didn’t know that I had no preload - and I was commuting at 40mph like that. But then on track I was like hmmm this feels a little off that I am getting slight wobbles while braking super hard at the end of the straight, decided to take a look after a couple laps and fixed it - I just bent one of the washers. It genuinely was by far the most controllable wobble I ever got on any truck, and it’s not a one off got it 3 laps in a row in the same spot.
Channels also don’t have as much articulation due to the way bushings are handled (at least matrix ii and lacroix style, can’t speak for trampa style here), which makes me get away with lower angles on dualities while still having the same turning radius.
Once I put WFB bushings in my dualities it was like taking this change even further, it feels like the board just does exactly what you want it to without you exerting any force, while simultaneously feeling even more stable. WFB’s low rebound lets you go up in duro enhancing stability in the middle without making the edges also feel tighter. It does however take things a step too far for most people’s taste for carving feel - it essentially makes the setup feel too easy and boring, especially if paired with a stiff deck. Great for track and riding fast though.
I don’t think matrix IIs would be comfortable at 40mph if you run them this loose:
Yellow shockblocks or white riptides feel wayyyyy tighter than these do on WFB especially deep into the lean. After riding WFB dualities for a couple months I got to ride my old matrix setup on riptides again, and I was genuinely struggling to turn with it, even though I had no issues turning it super tight while I was used to them.
If my setup requirement is zero effort deck lean up to 33 degrees, I just can’t make channels feel stable due to their progressiveness.
That said, WFB really requires you to be open to new setups otherwise it’s a step too far. I recommend going step by step if you want to avoid drastic changes in ride feel - first try riptide krank which should give you the most similar feeling while simultaneously being an upgrade over the feel of channels, can spice things up with venom HPF barrels in the front. Then try APS - it’s less rebound, easier turning but more stability. Then the next step is WFB which I admit is going to be a step too far for some. But it allows a setup to be wayyy more stable while simultaneously offering way better turning - sounds crazy but it’s real. However due to duro maxing out at 95.5A you are forced to run a setup that will feel loose swapping from channels. This is also too low rebound for jumps to feel nice imo, for that and carving also I would probably take a step back and go APS personally.
@CarelessAquarist I actually haven’t tried barrel style channels only spring and matrix ii style. But the points I am making about progressive bushing feel still stand for those due to how their geometry works, just maybe to a slightly lesser degree. Regarding the kingpin issues I have no idea if 3ds has a good solution to it or not, but I am a little sceptical. After having issues with two different designs. I personally wouldn’t spend 230€ (on sale, 300€ normal price) + shipping on a single one of those though, when you can get Dualities brand new for that + the price of the deck you were looking at. Or wait for dualities to pop up in the used market. Won’t be easy to find though as people rarely sell them. There were maybe a handful in the US. I don’t think there was a single one for sale in the EU, and there was one I think in the UK so far. I think that speaks for itself. You might be able to ask Tito for blems, don’t know if he has any or not, but that might save you a bit.
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No more derailing this dudes build thread for me but I appreciate your feedback. I personally didn’t like the loose feeling that 3links gave me, even with the same turn radius. I really like the progressive lean as it gives me feedback throughout the turn. I could see where this can cause trouble with bumpsteer though. You can still get moon parts through atbshop (as of writing this). Would love to try some dualities out on someone’s board though for a few laps to see. Maybe if I was on a race course 50% of the time, I would hate channels 
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Dualities sound great but I do think it would have to be more expensive. All great advice and I appreciate all the effort a lot. I don’t need to go 40mph like Venom, more moderately fast for as long as possible reasonably easily. Your setup is sooo nice and that video is impressive.
Another pro for the dualities is they are a good bit less tall which is useful if I wanted to go to a normal deck and larger wheels in the future although with a double stack enclosure it might not be necessary. I should read up on dualities a bit more, I’m not sure I understand all of what makes them so special or if it’s just the rkp style bushing performing better.
Softer barrel bushings aren’t in stock atm, but it goes down to 58A and I can adjust the position of the bushings, in the meantime I was thinking of using a lathe or drill press to remove material like a slot lengthways in the bushing to let it keep pressure in the centre but deflect more when compressed.
Don’t worry the feedback so far has been perfect and I wouldn’t mind
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Designed and printed this Ubox case on my school’s new X1C. I screwed up the dims and I’m too shy to ask to print another, so need a new heatsink.
But how much heatsink until it’s pointless? Like this thicc one in 200x150x35mm or 135x100x35 bc it’s cheaper?
If it would help with the 200 battery amps I could use thermal paste and copper between the fets and heatsink to spread heat more but this is sounding extreme and it’s just instantaneous current really.
Also a friend of mine is filling his e-moto with de-ionised water or something for cooling, I wonder if it’s useful for preventing thermal runaway in Li-Ion or cooling VESCs.
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It’s definitely way different than just a RKP derivate. The second pivot point reduces slip in the truck to zero, and removes the rider weight from the bushings.
Check out my writeup here(and the surrounding thread)
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Is this actually a good thing? I’ve become accustomed to expecting a level of truck slop
Sorry for the /derail
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I rode RKP esk8 for 4 years and was super used to truck slop but you’ll never go back.
Think of it like those viral videos of colorblind people putting on color blind-corrective glasses and crying from the beauty.
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^ same, 5+ years.
Going 30 mph, then intentionally shaking the board back and forth trying to induce a speed wobble is something I’d never try on a RKP board.
I regularly do it for funzies on Nothing Fancy because dualities are just so rock solid
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I got the additional cells for changing my mind to 16S8P, and @batterymooch yours too.
And made a litttle more progress on the enclosure.
I love my school’s metalwork room I can turn down some nuts and make the top plate in 30 minutes
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So I got some old 170kv flipsky 63100s. I know their VESCs are disastrous but the motors are often ok. Interestingly 63100s are 12mm longer than reacher 6495 and some are 17mm longer (obviously reachers are better I know)
One of the magnets had broken and come off (not complaining it was dirt cheap) can I glue it back on? I’ll clean everything off and it fits back into place really well, maybe loctite ea 9462 and I’ll put in a mold and fill with epoxy the bottom half of the can that was for some reason neglected.
With some high end adhesive on the edges and the whole can filled with epoxy I think I could run high peak phase amps.
The magnets are also not all evenly spaced 
maybe it’s something to do with lining up with the poles, but one also sticks down lower so I’ll stick it to flipshit manufacturing and send the el cheapo until I see a competitive drag race time or smoke (well maybe not quite so extreme)
Also how do I bend these? 0.3mm is a good bit more difficult than 0.2mm bc there’s more material and the inside vs outside radius is a larger difference. I used a big bending break to do a neat job in the past but don’t have access to one rn.
Theoretically f I put a double stack 4 length long 8 width wide 16s8p on top as well as the 8 length long 4 width wide 16s8p underneath I would probably make it across the entire country on a single charge. And 128/256 are good numbers being powers of 2.
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If you want a neat job without a lot of setup, you can always take a flat object (a piece of wood, a book you don’t care about, etc) and clamp it to the edge of a table to hold the metal in place. Push the bending tab around with another flat object, and you’ll get 90% of what an actual brake can do.
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6 votes.
6.66% more range.
6.66% more power.
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lol I never noticed.
6.66% more cells true but for the sake of the decision in my example it’s 33.3% more power bc I don’t know of any suitable VESCs able to do 125 battery amps.
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I got the Spintend today (thank you @SalamToU) and nearly finished the brackets.
Decision time.
I did work experience out of school in a materials research centre, got some parts 3dp and am going back to do a fancier version of a ct scan on a tab/tabless 21700. They apparently all want to see the project the parts were for and I leave early tomorrow and this is the esk8 rn.
edited
16S8P mock-up
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This is a really nice build for a first go at it and you’re probably nearing a third of my age so well done.
The only thing I can think of suggesting is not overthinking it too much. By the time you’ve finished and started riding it, you’ll have learnt so much that you’ll see what you should have done differently anyway. I very much doubt it’s gonna get built, finished, end of story.
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Thank you, and agreed.
Would not overdoing it be 14S instead of 16S?
I wouldn’t need to have an awkward top mount box or cut and repair the heatsink out of the enclosure. I put both setups on the 3d servisas calc and it would be like 43 vs 49km and less current draw on everything but it would still be fast enough and no less low end torque.
I just lose a little range, charging and top end power although I could max out the battery in 4wd and am interested in 0-20/0-30 so 16S would help.
Sorry for asking y’all on so many decisions.
Crazy stupid idea. Sorry for the tinkercad but it took literally <2mins.
8 wheel esk8. If you do it with the motors right you can just flip it around and +/- ground clearance. Just needs simple 2d brackets, an axle spacer, and 2 shoulder bolts.
I will be lasercutting a set in the next few weeks although obviously a more thought out design. I’ll make the height and forward ness unsymmetrical. I’ll get some value out of the huge wheel clearance I have.
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