Pollution, and the myth [Serious]

I don’t know this woman. And I’m certainly not a fan of insulting strangers or shaming them for their appearance. But to each their own

You’ve really hit the root of the problem here. That should read

national average grid of 90% from nuclear, and 10% from various renewables so the hippies can feel good about themselves.

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While I’m all for nuclear, the new designs are leaps and bounds safer than any currently in operation today. It’s actually cheaper to throw up some panels now. https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2018/11/21/want-the-cheapest-electricity-build-solar-and-wind-farms-not-coal-power-plants/#33aeb7bc66ce

Wikipedia disagrees slightly and says currently a gas/oil combined cycle power plant Is the cheapest. However if you click on that link it does not give any examples of any in operation. EDIT: some do exist. At least 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source

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Extraction of Lithium it is very simple, and clean. Actually they are doing it with shovels within some places, and the disposal it is environmental safe (an empty lipo could be throw to the garbage with no issues). I think everything it is about money, right know lithium is a cheap commodity, and the problem with that is not getting enough money to invest in new tech to extract it. My country have one of the biggest lithium reserves, but not enough money to extract it in big quantities yet (it will be a great business in the new future).

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This is a hard “Yes, please!”

:smiley:

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Someone once actually tried to tell me that electric cars produce carbon monoxide from the motor in the wheels… people can be pretty scary sometimes…:yawning_face:

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An empty lipo shouldn’t be thrown in the trash. Lithium is poison. Mining lithium is far from environmentally friendly and causes a lot of pollution. Electric cars are said to be more polluting than gas until driven for like six years and only then considered less polluting than combustion cars. The battery production being the biggest cause of the pollution from electric vehicles.

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I disagree, I have my own statements, but is a discussion that I do not want to get in to… I do respect yours…

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last time I checked it was more like 2-3 years until the electric car was „cleaner“ than a gasoline driven car.

and that comparison is still flawed because they only compared the manufacturing pollution of the electric car to the carbon emission of the gasoline driven car… as if the production of a gasoline car wouldn‘t pollute anything…

Oil lobbysts… just think about it, pollution numbers aside. Going with a very old non-sustainable technology which will inevitable run out or investing now in sustainable energy technology… should be the biggest nobrainer ever.

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Yeah, I’m not sure why they sell new gas-burning cars. My mother’s Tesla cost about as much as a Chevy, goes 320 miles per charge and can charge at a supercharger in less time than it takes for me to have a proper dump. We bought a Volt and the gas savings is equivalent to the car payment. Talk about no-brainers…

I asked my wife this question and she says people buy gas-burners for “the look” (facepalm)

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dont mean to upset and theres a lot of misleading info out there and I want to know the truth. from what I read the aluminum and cobalt are the more damaging elements than the lithium.

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@Santino @hummieee that’s on-topic in this thread.

Do either of you have a source to cite?

Mainly I was referring to operational pollution but if you want to delve into pollution from production and disposal, feel free

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The only logical measure of the state of advancement of a species is its power source. Well above us are (theoretical) societies that have captured all of the output of a star. We are still burning fossil fuels. Dead plants. When considered in terms of the power source measure for species advancement we are at the same level of cavemen burning wood for heat. It is the greatest shortcoming of modern science.

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i thought that methane had less long term impact on global warming than carbon dioxide?
note: this sounds like bait for an argument but i’m genuinely interested in personal edification on the topic

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I’m completely ignorant to the science behind this phenomena. I just like farts.

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Some info about extraction process https://www.samcotech.com/what-is-lithium-extraction-and-how-does-it-work/ Within Argentina, Lithium it is mostly common at the Salt deposits, over 3000 meters above the sea line; a very small part of the ecosystem it is affected because just a few ways of life are capable to prosper under such critical situations, it is a desert of salt, dirt and rocks. By saying that, I accept that any process will be harmful to Mother Earth, but this one is some of the less harmful proceses to get energy. Actually the fact that we all born, used dippers, food, plastic, live in a home made of tons of different materias (plumb, cloros, detergents, etc) made us more harmful to earth than 1000 cars life time…I could keep going, but I think it is pointless, tech is advancing, and this is part of the human reality, wether we like it or not, it is already happening…

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About disposal Lipo… Not as dangerous and contaminant like detergents, solvents, and oils…

Lithium Battery Disposal Guidelines
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The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) does not regulate the disposal of batteries in small quantities; large quantities are regulated under the Universal rules of Hazardous Waste regulations (40 CFR PART 273). Lithium batteries are not currently being collected by manufacturers for recycling. Lithium batteries are currently disposed of after their use. While there are no federal regulations for disposal of lithium batteries, individual states or localities can establish their own guidelines for battery disposal, and should be contacted for any disposal guidelines that they may have.

Batteries for commercial use should be in a discharged condition prior to their disposal. Generally, a primary lithium cell is considered to be discharged once its voltage reaches 2 volts or less under a current of C/100 (C is the rated capacity of the battery in ampere-hours). Once discharged, large quantities of lithium batteries can be shipped to a hazardous waste facility for incineration. There are a few companies that recycle Lithium Batteries. The cost is quite significant to do this compared to incineration.

The shipment of live or discharged lithium batteries is governed by the Department of Transportation (DOT) in their Code of Federal Regulations (49 CFR), paragraph 173.185(j).

Incineration of lithium cells and batteries by consumers is not recommended. Incineration should be done at a properly permitted facility that can handle this waste. Contact you waste handler if you are unsure whether or not a facility can handle the batteries.

Regulations and laws pertaining to the recycling and disposal of lithium batteries vary from country to country as well as by state and local governments. The European governments have more stringent regulations on the disposal of lithium batteries. You will need to check the laws and regulations where you live.

There are a number of facilities that recycle Lithium batteries. We may recommend Retrieve Technologies for US customers to recycle lithiumn batteries. The company website: www.RetrievTech.com,

Remember that before any type of disposal the batteries should be discharged completely. Tape the contacts with electrical tape and package so as to prevent contacts accidentally coming together at any time. These batteries can be incinerated if you have a large quantity and they will need to be packaged as lithium ion batteries. Incineration must be performed by an approved and permitted waste treatment facility that handles lithium ion batteries. If you are not sure if your waste facility can handle lithium ion batteries, contact them and verify if they are permitted or not.

For home disposal, many stores offer free recycling of rechargeable batteries. If no outlet is available in your area, it is safe to dispose of these batteries in your regular trash. As always, check with your local laws to make sure that this is acceptable.

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I don’t think anyone has done a study on the environmental costs of manufacturing electric skateboards, but there are plenty about electric cars.

Long story short, yes manufacturing a battery pack (I’m using Tesla as an example because that’s what I know) produces more pollution than manufacturing a car engine. Likewise, the total pollution from manufacturing an EV is greater than that of manufacturing a gas-burner.

However, an average ICE sedan produces something on the order of 254 grams of CO2 per mile (8,887 grams of CO2 per gallon, divided by 35MPG). A Tesla model 3 has an EPA rating of 112MPGe, which means that, assuming that 100% of the power consumed by the model 3 is coal generated (unrealistic but I’m trying to make a point here), it would produce 140 grams of CO2 per mile.

Let’s say that the process of manufacturing a midsize ICE sedan produces 17.5 tons of CO2.

Let’s also assume that producing everything but the battery in a model 3 also produces 17.5 tons of CO2. (It’s less, because no engine. But we’ll leave it as is, for the sake of simplicity.)
Manufacturing a 75KWh battery produces an additional ~8 tons of CO2, for a total of 25.5 tons.

Given the extra CO2 produced during the manufacturing process, and using 100% coal-fired electricity, the break-even point is about 70,000 miles. If you use cleaner fuel, that mileage shrinks a lot. Assuming 100% clean electricity, then it’s more like 31,000 miles.

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Well, you would need climate modification technology that is being developed right now to keep the world as is. The climate has never been static and it’s always changing, it’s not going to revert back on it’s own even if there were no humans on the planet.

Such a tech would be like the carbon capture plant in Zurich. It’s not just carbon that is a problem there are other variables we need science to figure this shit out.

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While carbon is far from the only, or the most powerful, greenhouse gas, we produce many orders of magnitude more of it than any of the others. Just getting the CO2 levels in the atmosphere back down to what they were in the 1800s would be a MASSIVE step towards reversing the climate change snowball effect.

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