Kweld spot welder

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=89039&sid=795372366ae037fca3c6c312d0409460&start=200#p1335425

I got a pair of 2.2Ahr 3s Turnigy Graphene Lipo batteries and tried them with my welder. I was utterly amazed. After blowing holes through some test strips, I got the weld time dialed in. For thinner nickel strips like .2mm, I bet a single one of these packs would work.

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89039&start=225#p1336713

I tried using a 6" length of 12ga solid copper wire with small sensing wires soldered at the ends. According to the chart, this should be about 0.8 mOhms. Based on this, I was seeing about 1.8kA during the pulse. I suspect the added resistance of the copper wire was reducing the current quite a bit as the cables weren’t jumping as much as normal. So the tiny little graphene batteries seem to be doing around 2kA.

Edit: I also measured the battery voltage during the pulse. It went from about 12v to about 6v. This gives about 6 mOhms internal resistance for each pack (I have 2 in parallel). If you stacked a bunch of those things in parallel, you could get some serious amps.

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Then checking quality price I guess 2 of this in parallel should do the trick. Would it be enoough for a 12s3-4p pack? Welding slowly

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I use a 3s 6ah red, and it gets me through a pack easily. I don’t even charge to full. But yes, I have to slow down mostly for the electrodes being so hot, which in a way serves as a safeguard for battery heat.

Honestly I would guess 1 of those would do the job. But it’s always a bit of a gamble trying different setups.

It’s interesting that the green ones have 75C discharge listed, but no max discharge.

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Your numbers look correct.

I’d rather call that 'optimum battery restistance, as you also don’t want to greatly undercut that number to prevent overcurrent problems.

I wouldn’t recommend 8S, as you’ll blow the kWeld input protection when fully charging these to 8*4.2 = 33.6V. And using a high voltage only makes sense when you already have such a pack lying around. I wouldn’t purposely build such a dedicated kWeld pack, because the power loss and generated heat in that pack will be huge. Remember, P = I^2 * R. At 1500A and 14.5mOhms you get 33kW of power dissipation in the battery during the pulses (!)

Selecting the right battery type and configuration isn’t an easy task, and these theoretical calculations can only be a starting point. Hence my recommendations of tested combinations on the kWeld product page.

I haven’t made own tests, but from customer feedback I’d say any fresh/good brand 65AH starter battery will do. For high amps go for 100AH, but depending on brand/model/age you migh get close to overcurrent.

I’ve got reports that the green (90C burst) model has weak cell interconnects that can melt from high energy welding with kWeld. The 150C models might be better though, but I don’t have info on that.

These are numbers at which the cell still maintains a certain voltage. kWeld is short circuiting them and pulls more amperage from the same cell. But The burst current rating is a good indication (unless the manufacturer is hugely overrating them for marketing). 475A burst should be well within the “window”.

I have started working on this after our family/business move and the lag created by that. The plan is to make an limited number of addon modules for existing kCap users who like to have the additional protection as a matter of courtesy, and then add the functionality to a redesigned kCap.

The website says the pack resistance of the 4S 1600mAh pack is 14mOhms, you’d at least need two in parallel and maybe even three to get a decent amount of current (please do the math excercise above to check).

This is the 4AH model at 10 milliOhms, two of them in parallel sounds good. A 5AH/3S battery usually lasts for 200 to 1000 welds depending on joule setting (discharging only by 2/3, I’d recommend to not go below 3V per cell).

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Thanks for all the answers! The choice of 8ah instead of 5ah was to avoid the battery from overheating to fast

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Awesome stuff thanks for staying active in the thread :slight_smile:

I was referring to the 3s 2.2ah ones. But,

Constant Discharge: 75C
Peak Discharge (3s): 150C
Pack Resistance: 7mΩ

Looks like HK puts more specs on some packs.

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you’re welcome! Trying to keep up :sweat_smile:

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I’ll get a third thank you

Edit: decided to get 2 more, so 4 of these in parallel, 6.4Ah

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Regarding how these welders work, I’ve noticed mention of the use of super caps and mentionof not using them. Are they wholly dependent on a row a giant fets simply dumping the battery current into the probes?

Would an array of caps help in any way?

Now i want to take the lid off of my CD150DPM and see what they’re doing in there. I feel like i’m going to find a whole fuckton of caps.

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Lool. Or I’m dumb.

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Was more a exercise to compare the discharge to what we more use to I’m surprised of how much more puntch the newer lipos have in comparison the 40-50 cell lith ion packs we build

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The Red are 90c burst I never realised or seen any green at that only seen 150c burst I thort that was the difrance the green having a higher discharge than the red of 75c. Green over 45c Red

Yes is the short answer

the super caps are used as a power supply from the mains as a alternative to using battery’s but a more price alternative

1000w PSU + 6 or more sup caps

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3s12p 25r bank, and it’s NOWHERE near fast enough for spot welding.

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Comparing the Green Turnigy Graphene Lipos applying the maths above to give people a starting point for useing them as the power source of a Kweld

6Ah 7mOhm Resistance

5Ah 9mOhm Resistance

4Ah 10mOhm Resistance

3Ah 13mOhm Resistances

2.2Ah 10mOhm Resistance (this look to low to me)
1.4Ah 13mOhm Resistance (this look to low to me)

KWeld Resitance 42mOhm or 0.0042ohm

To push the minimum of 800a
0.0042ohm*800A=3.36V

3s is 11.1-3.36=7.74
7.74V/800A=0.009675=9.7mOhm

so in Theory a 3S battery up to 9.7mOhm is bare minimum the closest is the Green 4Ah Turnigy Graphene at 10mOhm as the BARE MINIMUM.

Ideally it wants to push 1500A
0.0042ohm*1500A=6.3V
3s is 11.1V-6.3V=4.8V
4.8V/1500A=0.0032ohm (3.2mOhm)

Triple Turnigy 5ah in Parallel
(1/9)+(1/9)+(1/9)=0.333
1/0.333=3mOhm

Triple Turnigy 4Ah in Parallel
(1/10)+(1/10)+(1/10)=0.3
1/0.3=3.3mOhm

Dule Turnigy 6ah in Parallel
(1/7)+(1/7)=0.286
1/0.286=3.5mOhm

As the maths show in terms of Green Turnigy Graphene 4ah is the bare minimum 12Ah is preferred

What I can confirm in parties is single 3s6ah dose 1200-1400amps and dule 3s6Ah (3s12Ah) dose 1600-1800Amps

Hope fully you can follow this and it adds some evidence to why x or y is the one that should work for people to make up there own minds.

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Amazing! so the most cost effective choice for an optimal condition is dual 6h green graphene.
Are the one listed all green one? Maybe put a link or the full name next to it. It will help a lot to don’t get confused.
Thanks for the big input

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Done the work for you and added it in Previous post now. as fare as I’m aware the red have a higher internal resistance resulting in a lower discharge but I’m unable to fined the values currently just green are 75c constant 150c burst. Red are 45c constant and 90c burst. iv never personally used a Red Graphene.

If I was guessing I’d predict a 6Ah Red was about the min and 3*6Ah Red would be preferred Mathematically but that’s me guessing and it’s been proven the results in real are a little better in practise

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thanks a lot so all green graphene. Thanks for the work.

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