IDEA board with brackets, TKP trucks, hub motors and 3D printed battery enclosure

Hello everyone

This is a story about building a board with hub motors, a deck with brackets and Surfrodz TKP trucks, the enclosure is to be printed on a 3D printer.

It’s not a super performance board, it won’t be super fast with long range.
Deck is large and flexible so the ride is supposed to be comfortable… it is such a mini cruiser

Building this board is first and foremost a fun design :slight_smile: is the only reason why I quit my corporate job and decided to earn money by creating my own parts for DIY enthusiasts.

I wanted to do this project a long time ago… it’s an amalgamation of many of my previous projects and a return to my roots because the ESC and battery enclosure will be printed on a 3D printer, and the printed enclosures were installed in my first 3 boards from 2014, 2015 and 2016 when I started the esk8 adventure :slight_smile:

I designed the TKP hangers in 2019, the brackets are also an older design because it’s the 1st generation from 2019, which is still selling today :slight_smile:

The first concept of my hub motor board was based on the Backfire G2T kit but I wanted a bit more power and larger wheel diameter so I went with Meepo motors with 105mm wheels, I don’t know who makes them but WOWGO uses the same motors in their boards.

I decided to use complete electronics from Meepo
I bought a Meepo Shuffle v4 and took it apart
The enclosure is designed to fit the esc and meepo switch, unfortunately the ESC is very unusual because it has a large heat sink that I have to cut off, moreover it is not small, the switch is also a bit problematic to assemble…

A better solution would be to use a set of other small ESCs and a classic switch, such as Backfire, WOWGO or Meepo but from V3/ NLS PRO /MINI 2/MINI 2S but designing a case for Shuffle v4 is an additional challenge

The idea of enclosure is unusual
I want it to be possible to remove the batteries, i.e. assembly without welding the batteries.
first enclosure contains 2 cassettes of 6 batteries each, a total of 12. Unfortunately, the ESC meepo accepts only 10S so I will use 10 batteries.

The goals of such an enclosure are 2:

  1. I wants to encourage people to build their own boards… in the era of Chinese cheap boards building your own board in the garage for many people does not make sense… I don’t understand them because for me it’s great fun :smile: but I don’t have to understand everyone :rofl:, and seriously, screwing together a board many people will grasp, but building a battery pack is quite a challenge for many people.

  2. Such a board theoretically can be transported by airplane, so you can take it on vacation, batteries can be carried in hand luggage.

After the design of the enclosure is completed, it will be made available for self-printing

Such a solution is problematic because there is a risk of burning out the batterys contacts, but I like to experiment so I take the challenge :smiley:

The enclosure on the renders is the first enclosure with ESC, switch, charging port and 1 pack of batteries (12S1P or 10S1P). The batteries used are 21700

All parts except the enclosure are ready, the enclosure design is not finished, it’s a preliminary concept so many more hours of work and many printed prototypes ahead of me

A 1P battery is definitely not enough for me, so I will also design an additional smaller enclosure for an additional 10S1P pack (but with 12 chambers for 12S1P).

The packs will be interconnectable. the battery pack will be expandable to 12S4P.

The only thing that worries me is the BMS, for 1P BMS is not necessary (of course if new batteries are used), but for 4 packs without welding BMS would be a good option… this is a topic to think about

Parts list:
Deck - IDEA
Brackets - IDEA, type 1
TKP Hangers - IDEA
Base plates and bushing set - Surf-Rodz TKP HEX
Hub Motors - Meepo Shuffle v4
ESC, remote control - Meepo Shuffle v4
Battery - 10S1P and later 10S2P

I wrote about hangers in Vendor Corner but will repeat because it may be relevant

The biggest drawback of the Surf-rodz TKP trucks is the two-piece hanger, a cool idea, but dangerous because the thin M6 screws break.

I used M8 bolts for assembly, the cross-sectional area of an M8 bolt is almost 2 times that of an M6 bolt so the strength is much higher

Of course you have to ream the holes in the bushing set from 6 to 8mm but it’s easy to do :slight_smile:

The front hanger is 260mm wide, this is the width without axles, it uses 10mm diameter axles.
The rear hanger is 180mm wide, after mounting the motors, the outer width of the front and rear wheels is very similar

This is not a commercial project, I made these hangers because I wanted to, of course if someone wants to build a similar board, I can make a few more sets :slight_smile:
I also designed rear hangers for classic belt drives if you don’t like hub motors.

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I plan to make clamp rings with 3 holes so that I can use Chinese gear drives for DKP trucks but that’s a topic for Vendor Corner

I didn’t like the Meepo hub motor covers so I made my own

21 Likes

I love your work but I can’t stand behind this statement. The P group count has nothing to do with needing a BMS or not. You can only skip the BMS if you do balance charging at least every few cycles (the number here depends on the condition of the cells).

Other than this, it’s an awesome little board. :grin:

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I don’t want to make excuses , but :smiley:
If you use 1P, then in the absence of contact of 1 cell, the whole package does not discharge… all these batteries are connected in series, so they discharge evenly, also, the condition of the cells is very important

Of course, they must all be charged to the same voltage before assembly. In addition, the batteries are removable so you can always check the voltage of each cell.

Of course, my theory will be verified after some time :slight_smile:
Let me try :smiley:

In the case of a larger pack, i.e. 2P, 3P, 4P, the risk of uneven discharge is high, because the packs in this type of housing will not be connected like a classic battery pack, so in this case some kind of BMS… is necessary. but I have no idea yet how to connect it :confused:

I have about 10, boards, half of them do not have a BMS, I built all of them with new batteries, I check the voltage on the cells from time to time and they have discharged evenly for several years…

To be clear… I’m not saying a BMS isn’t necessary, but I’d rather not have a BMS than use a poor BMS.
For me, the BMS must have the ability to view voltages

I would never build a board for a customer without using a BMS, I build such boards for myself, my boards often evolve, because they are intended for testing parts so I disassemble them several times a year and by the way I can check the state of the batteries, moreover, I rarely charge the boards at 100%.

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The problem isn’t this, it’s the slightly different capacity and internal resistance of the cells. Over time, the voltages will drift apart if you don’t have a BMS or do balance charging from time to time.

You were lucky then! I even had a battery that did have a BMS, was built from brand new cells, but still managed to loose balance very significantly! It was from a production board actually.

I completely agree with not wanting to use a poor BMS though.

Ah okay! If you only do a few cycles between teardowns, and avoid the voltage extremes, then it should be fine.

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I don’t want to get into the bms stuff, but my 2 cents is that
if you skip the bms, you should be extremely vigilant about how/where you charge the board.

Other than that, this looks like an awesome build! Hubs on tkp will be awesome and a good test as to whether the beefed up m8 bolts will be enough to hold the hanger together!

Can’t wait to see some more progress!

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I don’t have to, I use the RIDEN RD6018W power supply to charge all my boards, it’s a great option because I decide what voltage and current to charge.

The second thing is that most power supplies control the maximum charging voltage, but you’re right, you need to think about the BMS for charging,

The idea is to add a tiny BMS board, e.g. 5S/6S with 2A charging current for 1 cassette, anyone can recommend something?
The electronics board must be small, so there is no chance of data monitoring, but I have to find a compromise.

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ZBMS is more often out of stock than available. The whole vescified onewheel community is trying to get any :smiley:
flipsky has a clone however that is very similar in size

Why not use an external BMS? Obviously you need an 11 pin plug for a 10s balance lead, but it could be done.

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This is so over the top, I love it.

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ZBMS is too big and too expensive, I would use 1 BMS per cartridge, I need something tiny like BMS for electrotools battery :slight_smile:

E.g. this BMS supports LI-ION 5S 25A, the dimensions are 54 x 18mm and the price is 3 dollars

This is just an example, I haven’t chosen it yet :slight_smile:

This BMS is configurable, you can convert it to 3S, then you would have to use 4 pieces for 12S1P

Zrzut ekranu 2023-08-10 172423

Zrzut ekranu 2023-08-10 172430

of course it’s a crappy BMS so I’m looking for an altermnative but I like its size and shape

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I like that DAVEGA integration! Was it just on paper and then got scratched or are we actually going to see it?

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This is an idea of integration from 4 years ago, in this board there is no option for it because ESC is Meepo, but I would be willing to return to this topic in other projects. What are the dimensions of Megan electronics? Megan housing seems thinner than DavegaX housing

This was a good move as the thinner hub motor covers can get chipped and broken by road debris hitting them. I’ve got some that are like that but thankfully I never got unlucky enough for the damage to be bad enough to cause any issues. Just made it to where a bolt or two had less material on the cover to hold it down. (6 bolts per cover on the hubs I have)

For the BMS what about having an external BMS? It would require adding some creative panel mounts but since you are already modeling and printing the enclosure it wouldn’t be hard to add in. That way you could use a good BMS and not worry about the size it takes up in the enclosure

Charging with an external balancer is nothing new to me… before I was interested in esk8, I was playing with RC models, designing and building multicopters.

My moutainboards are equipped with Lipo and I charge them with balancer chargers, but in this case I want the battery design to be as compact as possible with a minimum of connectors.

BTW.
A long time ago I designed a small drone that I printed on a 3D printer, the durability wasn’t the best, but it looked cool :slight_smile:

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I said a few days ago that I’d rather not have a BMS than a bad BMS, but contrary to my declaration I bought cheap miniature BMS for the battery case, I’ll see if it makes sense, in theory the discharge current is 25A, but I don’t think these paramters are real so I’ll connect them only for charging.

I will do tests by charging each battery with a different voltage in an external charger, see if the balancer will work properly and equalize the voltages on the batteries.

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The profile is 65x94mm and the height is ~7mm.

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Modified ESC meepo, I had to cut the side edges of the heat sink

It will take me some time to design an enclosure so to start I will mount the Meepo hub motors and electronics to one of my boards.

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You make such beutiful sleek boards, hopefully i can get my pennies saved and get one here in Aus. eventually.

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Agreed, and such a unique style too. You can tell an IDEA build just by looking at it.

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