Flipsky 75100 foc for esk8, good ?

[barthchris]

Not bad lighting. Windings are definitely cooking while pushing this hard. It has me a little concerned. Eventually it’ll pop, it’s happened twice before I vented the motor and I wasn’t nearly pushing as much through them. No fun when this happens as the phases usually short tto one another. Trying to push is futile. I just try to hide it somewhere, do the walk of shame home then drive back and pick it up.

Since I’ve been doing this I’ve been worried about heat pushing the neodymium mags past their curie point causing permanent damage/ loss of strength. I’ve done it before with a RC inrunner many years ago but I haven’t noticed it happening with any other motor including these. I haven’t measured temperatures, which I really should but maybe ignorance is bliss.

I have a few stators lying around which I have been experimenting with. I picked up some red insulating varnish by mg chemicals. You kinda dab it on the windings and let it flow. Hoping it would help mitigate issues like this happening but I also wonder if it’s going to make things even hotter. Guess I will see.

Back to the 75/100. Had a hurricane roll through where I’m at in NC.
In between a rain band I took the scooter down to the store really quick just to get out of the house.
Never had problems with water but this time I did.
Somehow water got into either the controller or the wiring. I’m cruising along at probably 30mph and all the sudden the throttle kick in at 100%!

Usually the tapping the brakes will shut down the motor. Nope!!! Luckily I have two good brakes to overcome the motor. I was able to stop get off while the brake was holding motor running in a locked rotor condition and quickly fumbled around while I pulled out my loop key.

Everything was fine after it dried out but I’m going to pop open the case 75/100s case, clean the PCB with isopropyl then add some conformal coating of that red insulating varnish. Will also remove the factory heat compound and add some good stuff. Something like Arctic Silver.

[deeznuts_pwned]

i was hoping it wasn’t the lighting… if your coils ain’t dark and burnt like yours then you ain’t pushing it hard enough

[barthchris]

18s6p now.

First ride I got up 47mph. At WOT from standstill it looks like Im pushing close to 3500W.

I included GPS and RPM derived speed in one of the graphs. It’s dead on.

Again, no hill’s where I’m at. I couldn’t even get to full speed as there were too many cars.

I’m now at the point where I feel uncomfortable. Every imperfection in the pavement is amplified. The roads in NC are much better than roads back home in MD but going this fast on 10” tires with no suspension is begging for the Darwin Award

[deeznuts_pwned]

all the volts! more, i need more! lol you were moving pretty good. Baltimore city has pot holes that break aluminum car wheels lol I’ve came across a few that blew my scooter tire out even running more than 50 psi all the volts! more, i need more! lol

I’ve been nominated for my Darwin award still waiting on the results. i hit a hole last summer riding flat out and thankfully my forehead broke my fall and my oakley glasses made of supposedly unbreakable unobtainium metal. wear a helmet

[hummieee]

Ive been running 86v full charge with the 75100 for a huge amount of miles now commuting to work an hour each way plus more for over half a year now. It’s hit or miss though and one 75100 I tried before shorted and the battery produced enough amps to smoke n melt a QS8 loopkey. If I’d been using ion cells instead of lifepo4 I think could’ve resulted in a flamethrower. I now use a fuse on anything ion

[deeznuts_pwned]

it’s a freaking power wall with wheels attached.

[barthchris]

Aww man, I’ve been worried about that happening! Yeah, Bmore roads are all jacked up. Hope your doing alright! It doesn’t take much for a TBI to occur! EDIT: I see last summer… “Jury still out though”… lol!

I just recently got a full face helmet because I feel it’s gonna happen eventually. I’m thinking about some sort of gloves with some sort of skid plate as well.

I just added another parallel set going from 18s6p to 19s6p
Definitely diminishing returns as I’ve gotten past 16s. Just reached 49 mph earlier this evening. 20s with take me to 50mph. Any more speed needs to with a motor rewind which I’ve already been experimenting with.

[barthchris]

That’s bad ass!
I remember you were selling some A123 26650s a while back.
I’ve always been interested in them since they were introduced. I had several of the 18650 versions but they weren’t nearly as impressive as the 26650 with current capacity.

[barthchris]

I’m looking at your motor setup on the top MT bike. What motor is that?
Looks like you custom welded the frame??

[hummieee]

Had the frames made. I have one more bike left to sell. The motor is super Premo with .15mm lams n n45sh mags. Ant innovationS. I changed the hub part for fat bearings. I’d sell the bike for 1600

Just ordered more a123 26650s and there’s great deals on eBay still

The power output and flat discharge is better than anything else. The K2 cells on the bike now, which are military surplus and no longer available, are 3800mah but sag compared and making another green pack

[Miniproto]

A bit non-Esk8 related but has someone managed to get 75100 working with a PAS?

[Evwan]

I’ve tried pedal assist but I never quite figured out how to get it to work period. I couldn’t find any documentation on how to hook it up. What are you working with?

[deeznuts_pwned]

i can’t get the same results you can from my 75100 like i can from the OEM ninebot max controller just running modded firmware

got my ride all road legal here in Maryland!

[Miniproto]

I wanted to get a small controller for my 1500watt Hubmotor Mountainbike.
Turns out it’s not very easy…
But there is a PAS solution I believe.

GitHub - OpenSourceEBike/EBike_EScooter_modular_DIY: EBike / EScooter app...

[poastoast]

the uhhhh tronic 750?

[Nisse977]

Hi!
What FW version is 5.2 in the new VESC tool 6 ?
Yesterday I did a FW update on my old Flipsky 4.20 dual VESC. It had FW v3.59.
First I updated to the latest v6.02 by misstake,then I wanted to downgrade to v5.2, but there was no version 5.2 to choose, the closest was 5.03 so I choosed that one.
Then I thought that maybe Flipsky version number is not the same as VESC version number?

[barthchris]

I definitely will be investing in some! For applications where weight isn’t super critical and where spaces isnt too constrained the A123s should perform just as well if not better even if I need to add a few cells to make up for lower voltage. Factor in the relative safety, cycle life, abuse tolerance its just hard to beat.

Your bikes are beautiful!
I have to ask…On that dirtbike-looking thing you showed above are you using 12 guage extension cord for phase wire extensions?? Lol! If so, why the hell not?! Its perfect actually! You can just parallel the three stranded conductors per wire to make what is the equivalent of #7 gauge(not an actual trade size but according to my calculations three #12s in parallel #7 gauge is what I get. , it’s well insulated, uses flexible stranded pure copper, it super inexpensive, and is found everywhere.

.If Im totally off base and I’m imagining something that isn’t even in the picture then hell, it’s still a good idea!

[barthchris]

Why do you need to be street-legal in Baltimore?? When has that ever mattered in the last 25-30yrs!??
What are they called?? Roughriders/rough boys?? Packs 100-150 strong of wheelers, dirtbikes, every single one was obtained by alternative means (if you catch what I’m saying) So many cops cant do anything, they just look the other way! Wash DC has the same thing so don’t feel bad. Lol! It’s a spectacle that you just can’t describe without actually seeing it in person. Its hilarious, and disgusting but somehow as shocking as it is you aren’t really surprised.
Cool tag though! Ive been tinkering with ESP32s and addressable LEDs for mine. This is a super easy to install and use app for ws1218b type LEDS its called WLED https://kno.wled.ge/… can be used for SOOO much.

I’m getting even better results now. 20s 55mph flatland, no wind, no drafting tractor trailers, no holding bumpers. Lol!

Im still in NC for a while longer but I will be heading back north in a month or so. Maybe we can meet up and I can help tune things for you.

Are you still using the OG 75/100? What voltage, what cells, how many cells in parallel, how are the cells condition(IR)…
For sure once you get past 2kw you will need to look into venting the sides of the hub. Sounds scary but Ive put probably 700miles on mine that is wide open to the elements with NO DAMAGE at all. Even on sandy roads with small gravel… nothing. Ridden in the rain countless times. Hell, Ive even intentionally borrowed someone’s sprinkler to slowly and evenly cool my windings /mags down by spraying directly on them after one particularly aggressive ride on the hottest summer day. Yes, probably a very risky thing to do with expansion/contraction, possible magnet cracking, and or windings distorting to the point of enamel flaking causing shorts but since I have extra motors;) out the ying yang I can afford to take risks. I was relatively careful(well as careful as I could be since I helped myself to what is probably some old grumpy man’s sprinkler/water). No damage at all, probably put 300 miles on since.

Way off subject but yeah, we should meet up when Im back up there. Id rather not go to Bmore, I think my hood pass was revoked a few years ago but you’re more than welcome to head down to Rockville/Potomac area. If you can renew my hood pass I might venture up your way. Baltimore…It’s unique for sure!

I have a little extra time so if you think you will do the motor vent Ill even route out a set of NB max motor plates with vents so all you have to do is swap…

hall sensors aren’t necessary since the hub motors have such a strong BEMF signal. I actually now just set openloop ERPM at 25. Sounds crazy because I guess I could technically use open loop all the way down to 0 but whatever, 25 works great… I also increases VSS voltage to around 35-40…

Other setting are MANY compared to what I get right after FOC Wizard. Ill have to screen shot you them in DM. One potential issue the though your motor is very similar to mine I don’t think things will transfer directly over, but probably get you in the right direction. Cant say this for sure because Ive only tried 13s with both the NB max and the B3. Same exact battery, and controller, just swapped from on scooter to another. What ran great on the Bird ran like crap on the NBmax. Only diff was the motor. Stator on NB motor had a 5mm larger diam but 5mm less height (or laminations stack) than the B3 motor. I also am fairly certain that the B3 motor has more copper per turn…Basically, it can carry more current without as much resistance / heating. But still, depending on yiur voltage right now I feel much more power is possible for you.

Don’t feel bad. It took me a long freaking time to finally get my motor working as well as it is now. Id consider myself well-versed with BLDC motors and controllers, lithium batteries, etc. My electrical and mechanical skills are probably much better than average as well but still, it took me a crapload of persistence and motivation to get things running as they are now. VESC info is out there but it’s hard to find some key settings specifically for scooter hub motors. I had no prob getting VESC to run better than even the best FW mod with stock controllers. For many they probably would have been happy with VESC setting after a tune using the FOC wizard but I had a feeling there was much more potential possible than I was getting. For a while, I was stuck right around where you are right now, 1500W and 25-33mph but little by little improvements were made, sometimes I found a tweak that made a huge difference but they all seemed to happen very recently.

Even though the motor is running unbelievably. Powerful, Insane acceleration with unbelievably smooth, totally silent commutation. Puts a smile on my face every time. But… as incredible as the performance is I think I could get even more performance with some tweaks.

[hummieee]

Those giant phase wires come on the QS138 motor

What settings do u mess with to make things run better and what do u mean by better? What you think of manually decreasing the motor resistance setting?

[barthchris]

I accidentally left my last post here vs sending as a PM to Deez nuts. I’m naturally long winded but it might help to explain my 5000 word dissertation of a post.

But since you asked I’ll divulge in another several thousand word essay. Lol!

My settings are probably only good for the low kv 29n 30p hub motors on a scooter. But since you have that giant QS motor ( I’m floored that those are the phase wires!!!) some of the same principles may help you as well.

BTW, are you the same guy who appeared on RC groups electric motor construction subforum maybe 10 years ago? I have a feeling it is you. Very hungry for all knowledge about brushless motors and you asked really, really good questions that enlightened me. I actually looked forward to your questions. Lol! Some old grumps there but in general tons of experience and knowledge there. Those guys were literally the same guys who devised the DLRK winding scheme. The design which is used in 90% of drone motors as well as the majority of outrunners. Crazy if you think about it. I remember you were attempting to design a in wheel hub motor for eSkate. I remember many trials and tribulations, tons of winding method iterations to avoid the dreaded stator shorts and many other teething problems. You did it alone if it was in fact you. Were you ever successful?

Ok, My first big change that made a difference was lowering the observer a lot! If the wizard gives me 5.00 or 6.00, I will drop to below 1.00, currently I’m at 0.25. My guess is the hub motors low kv and size gives more than enough back EMF. It basically needs no signal amplification.

Another significant change has been hindsight super obvious but it took me over a year to figure out. ERPM for hub motors comes set way too high from the wizard. I experienced tons of cogging, desyncs, and over current events when I nailed the throttle from a standstill. Even if I already had a decent roll going sudden throttle punches would trip up the motor. I finally found some obscure post from Vedder that said for hubs ERPM needs to be 50 ssensored and 100 open loop. I found lowering it even further helps even more.

Another is motor flux linkage. I found lowering it helps with torque. Say the wizard gives me a setting of 23.000mWb, I’ll experiment by lowering to maybe 19.000mWb, if it runs better I try even lower, so on and so forth. You know the routine, trial and error.

Those are the biggies that transformed the motor from running good to running damn near perfectly. Perfectly mean no hiccups across the throttle spectrum, powerful torque/ acceleration that never fails to impress. Power that gives a sense of confidence, power that is consistent and doesn’t fade. The Incredible reduction in noise is another thing that is not only a benefit ( in my opinion) but it’s also a sign of a proper tuning for effective, efficient FOC commutation.

I also use the Unlimited hardware FW version.
These settings will probably sound ludicrous but I’m having great success with them.
140 motor current.
200 absolute max current,
140 max battery current
-60 break,
-60 regen

I use the hell out of field weakening.
This is going to sound bonkers but I’m actually set to 115A for FW! I surely figured I would hit saturation this high but I think I could actually push it a little more and gain more speed!
I only go this high on the 75/100. My other 60V max vescs seem to saturate the same exact motor at 50A field weakening current with of course less voltage 13s… Not sure what gives with this.

I’m probably missing something. I should figure out how to post all my settings. I have no problem sharing them as I feel they are very successful.