Conductor Current Ratings [SRO]

In my case there’s nearly no airflow for the phase wires, so just looking at it from scientific vs pratical for now.

Copper Coated Silver exsists heh?

And pure Silver stranded? (aware it needs somethig to prevent degrading) - Marginal gains are fine - been long term doing marginal gains thruout mysetup over time it’s not so marginal anymore when all added up.

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Not sure if it exists.

Silver has a lower resistance and is the best conductor, but it oxidizes badly. It’s the best conductor, but not for surfaces.

Gold is the best conductor for surfaces as it doesn’t oxidize or corrode. So, in theory, gold-plated silver would be the best wire you could make at room temperature. Copper coated silver would be better than silver, as copper corrodes more slowly than silver.

If you really want to go down that route, gold plated silver is the best.

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to confirm i understand it correctly
Silver being the best conductor by a far amount vs Gold.

The aim in using it on Phase leads would be to get the most effeciant power transfer and fastest to the motors (since i run hubs only - which lean on the hotter side, any reduction i can do to reduce the heat buildup in the can - before it reaches the can should be benifical. also since as metal heats up, resistance increases.

Agreed that silver windings would be the best - but not an option for me currently.

I feel like simply using a motor with a bigger stator would be a lot more beneficial.

AKA swapping a 6374 for a 6380, et cetera

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You dident catch my comment on being on HUBS i see 7065

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Well then go four wheel drive for best results :crazy_face:

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Nothing is wrong with results as they are - looking for improvements on my next build. same format - Only 2 hubs.

Ive read all over most say silvers not worth it without a real basis on if it’s better or not.
Since hubs Hold alot of heat - Any heat mitigation should result in at the very least a delay in the heat buildup. hence silver wire between VESC and motor seemed to be the best area i could tackle. The best of course being the motor itself but maybe 2021 i’ll try to wind my own motor.

finding suppliers for these items is tricky so just looking to confirm before extensive searching

I believe @hummieee has seriously considered using silver windings, and if he’s opting out, then I’d say it’s probably not worth doing. He tends to focus on quality above all else, cost included.

Maybe he can drop some thoughts on this.

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Yeah well since my focus here is on phase wire leads i still am not sure my inital question is answered :smiley:

pretty sure if i said i wanted to use Aluminum phase leads (being stupid) that would raise a flag hence why im looking at the best possible phase leads. (read the entirehummie development but phase wires arent mentioned)

Just need to go back in time a little bit.

Silver-plated copper wire, as mentioned, is only a tiny bit more conductive than all-copper wire. The plating is just too thin to make a real difference.

You can find out exactly how much of a difference all-silver wire would make by looking up the conductivity of copper vs silver, looking up the cross-sectional area of the gauge of wire you would use, and then calculating the resistance of whatever length phase wires you would use.

Once you have that you can use Ohm’s Law to calculate voltage drops and/or power losses and compare the two metals.

Silver is a noble metal and doesn’t oxidize easily. It does however very readily react with atmospheric sulfur or the sulfur compounds in some wire insulation types. Once this occurs though the silver sulfide layer starts blocking additional tarnishing from occurring. I wouldn’t expect any tarnishing to affect performance. I recommend silver solder for the connections though and that stuff is harder to use as it has a higher melting point than standard leaded solder.

I suspect that, considering the short lengths of the phase wires, using silver wire wouldn’t make much of a difference. Silver is only about 10%, at best, more conductive than copper IIRC. It’s easy and a lot less expensive to just go to a larger gauge copper wire instead of using silver.

But if you need max performance in the smallest possible wire gauge, and cost is secondary, then silver might be worth checking out. Run the numbers.

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Thanks Mooch! - summerized my intent and situation perfectly - Even if from a motor running at 60c max if it reduced it to 57, or if it gave longer max throttling i’d call it a win.

What about Pure Stranded Silver? stright up - anything im losing by just removing copper from the phases. (id coat it to protect it)

Flex ability, logjevity. Pure solid silver is not good on its own. Yes silver and gold are better conducters but there a lot of crap out there that’s miss leading gold coated tv leats are pointless unless both connectors are the same mixture

If you looking it windings your better of looking at a better quality purer copper that’s squarer to give a higher % fill will give you a mutch better result

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Great, So lovevity is solved by protecting the silver correctly. and flex abblity is negeleble in this configuration, cables really dont need to move much.

So the flipside would be some super conductive cables.

My main objective is always effeciancy first. (as far as i knew the order of conductivity is Silver Copper Gold) for me the losses of gold are already not apealing. - standard as they may be; when trying something new standards are simply the baseline to beat.

My phase cables move all the time every time I turn a corner/vibrations Etc ect

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Dont get me wrong they move, but not like your thinking.

my cables run alongside my trucks and are interegrated as part of the truck to the motor.

only area where flex would happen is a tiny amount of play based on full turn left to right.

as for vibrations… There’s alot of dampening before the wires meet. reason im asking is because im toying with the idea similar to a PCB with the traces intergrated into a truck. which doubles up as a alumium heatsink.

then under the baseplate actual Wire would be placed, the connection between the two can even be achived in a pivot orientation. Kinda hard to explain.

Went thro a phase or using aluminium cables When copper was becoming more expensive caused a lot of fatieg issues. Now it’s not even considered most of the time. Copper is a hard to beet for it property’s to make cables from. Gold and diamonds get used when conductivity is vital but cost and fatigue rules it out for nearly all applications.

Yeah and cost is indeed an irrelevent aspect of this protoyping. - feels so offten that responses are made with cost / relibality at the front and the question at the end :stuck_out_tongue:
But when hobbist prototyping - cost is only limited by how much you choose to spend on it.

Which is hard to detemine before assesing the possible options > then sourcing the vendors :smiley:

though I have seen silverphasewires before- at the time i dident pay them any mind. just had to find them today to check they were silver or silver coated copper or some really funky looking tin

Silver is about 5% more conductive then copper

This infinitesimal improvement might be worth something under extreme circumstances, all else being equal–but all else is rarely equal. First, silver is a more brittle material than copper, compromising the cable’s flex-life. To solve this problem, silver is often plated over a copper wire–diminishing the conductivity benefit. Second, the conductivity benefit, as often as not, is offset by a reduction in wire gauge. Going from an 18 AWG conductor to a 20 AWG conductor, for example, results in an increase in resistance of over 50%; this swamps the conductivity benefit of silver, so that an 18 AWG copper conductor is more conductive, not less, than a 20 AWG silver or silver-plated conductor. When the comparison is between full-sized copper cables and silver-plated mini-coax of tiny gauge, like those one sees in many popular silver cable products, there’s no contest; full-sized copper cables are dramatically more conductive, silver or no silver.

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Silver could result in slightly lower phase wire temps (but at a $$ and possibly a reliability cost) but there won’t be much heat flowing through the phase wires from the motor IMO. I don’t think you’ll even get a 3°C motor temp difference using silver phase wires.

I’ve only been referring to pure silver so far. Any alloy of silver will have higher (sometimes MUCH higher) resistance than copper.

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