Problem 1: core shape cannot be modified without creating new pulley shape, at this point just switch to kegal. 2: for a solid core design: kegal. I feel like retooling for gf nylon core without 100% guarantee that it will fix the problem is a waste of money. The manufacture needs to do some evaluation on weather gf nylon can fix the problem 100%, otherwise what is the point?
Here’s my take on this, and this sentence summed up what I have been trying to say. what if the manufacturer does not want to make a product that lasts?
You have been debating on core shape and material selection, which is great, IF, the goal here is to make a wheel most durable and high performance.
I completely understand your point, If i was designing the core and those 2 things were the main criteria, it would definitely not be what is being sold… But what if I was asked to design a core with minimal production cost with a reasonably low, but existing, failure rate? It would look a lot like that…
My point is, the abec core was selected I think due to the popularity of the pulley on many production boards. This alone already handicapped the design. The abec core design is not strong enough for a wheel this massive. I already know this. I still like the looks. Second is, the core was made at a high volume, low cost production. The model here is quantity over quality.
So the debate here is not what material or shape, the debate here is, how do we convince a bottom dollar high volume manufacturer to make high performance products?
Seen on the FB group, something else that could well account to user error. I’m not familiar with those pulleys, but if the bearings aren’t locked in place, and they can find creep out of their seating, this would destroy the core in no time. Is there an unfilled gap between the pulley bearing and the inner wheel bearing?
Also the bolt on pulleys that they pictured on the website, where only bolts traverse the core would have a good chance at hammering the core. Tighten the bolts too much and you’d crack the core, or keep them too loose and they’d hammer the spokes during accelerations and braking. If the only support is from the bolts, that is surely not enough (at least for high torque / heavy riders).
If they don’t change they won’t be able to sell any product. Certainly not for $200 a set.
The word is out that their current product is unsave. You seem to care about the manufacturer. You already said that you recommended NGF to them for thier next product. If their answer is “no, we are going to do it the cheap way becasue we make more money and we don’t care if some wheels fail” – Then give up and focus on warning fellow riders not to purchase or ride on this companies products.
Then let them go out of business as they should.
You agree with me that the product needs a different core design and NGF to be a safe replacement for OEM electric longboard wheels. So why would you try to convince me that the unique tire creates loads that would crack an NGF core.
The existing product is unsafe and the manufacturer won’t be selling too many more of them. The current molds will need to be discarded. If they build a new set of molds that are also limited to unreinforced plastic, then their next products will fail and so will thier business.
As far as I can tell this is the only electric skateboard wheel that is manufactured with an un-reinforced plastic core. They should recall the product that is out there, stop selling it as a replacement for high end electric longboards and they should build a product around industry standard materials that keep riders safe.
If they refuse to do that then my advice would be to distance yourself from them instead of explaining all the reasons why you feel its ok for them to continue selling substandard products that have the potential to kill riders. You have defended the idea that such a decision is ok becasue the molds are cheaper and because they can make more money.
You keep telling me that I’m wrong about everything. Wrong about NGF. Wrong about which loads are cracking the existing bearing compartments. I expect your next post will tell me i’m wrong about something else.
The product is unsafe. The product uses substandard materials. The idea that its ok to keep using the same substandard materials for improved profit is an argument that no electric longboarder would accept. The idea that failures are ok within the warranty period if it maximizes profits is also unacceptable to riders. The idea that failures outside the warranty period are of no concern is unacceptable to riders.
All of those ideas are alien to me. I would not accept them no matter how many more times that you tell me i’m wrong.
What do you think I’ve been trying to say this whole time? I keep making the point that this company prefers mass market to high quality.
I only said it might crack a clone abec core. I think with a kegel core, even PC/ABS will not crack.
That’s their choice. There is no shortage of cheap wheel clones out there, that will all suffer similar fates. This fits in with those. Go browse ali sometimes.
I’m defending their right as a manufacturer. There is no “standard” to withhold. There is no international skateboard wheel certification and safety ratings. They make what they do, it is up to you to buy it.
Again, what standard? You’re doing the “well everyone else does it so they should too”. I’m not defending sub-par materials, I’m defending freedom of choice, both their choice to make whatever they want, and your choice to buy it or not.
Why do you think it is the company’s responsibility to protect /you/. This is the reason why coffee cups have hot warning labels and why you can’t buy M80 firecrackers. I say fuck it, blow your fingers off, no warning needed. If you as a consumer is not smart enough to understand the product and it’s purpose, don’t blame the manufacturer for not making what you THINK you bought.
Go ahead, tell everyone that those wheels may crack, warn all the riders. I’m supportive of that. That is your choice as a consumer to warn fellow consumers of this item. But don’t sit here and point at the manufacture going “wahhh, you didn’t make what I thought you made”
So just too be clear, are you saying you contacted the manufacturer, that you suggested upgrading to NGF and switching to the kegle core pattern. Are you saying that they replied back to you with something like no thanks. Thats too expensive. We will keep doing it with PC/ABS because the molds are cheaper and we make more money.
No, they did not reply to me at all, which shows they don’t really give a crap. Jeff is going to talk to them and since he is another china manufacturer, it may hold some weight. So far they have been minimizing media damage and playing defensive measures. I don’t like it, but again, it’s not my call. If they want to dig themselves into a hole, go for it. If they think that this does not bother their top dollar, okay. I won’t make decisions for them because they as a business can make their choice, and I can make mine. I gave them my 2 cents and so will Jeff, but I won’t cry about it if they decide to say fuck you. There are other options out there, and if I feel brave I’ll keep riding these because I still like how they feel.
It is not worth my time to convince someone else of what I wish for. I understand you think all my posts have been defending them, I have simply been making a point to let everyone know how these manufactures think and operate, and don’t hold your hopes too high, and make an educated purchase decision knowing this. That is all.
Sorry I tend to beat around the bush with my answers. I try to keep as neutral as possible in things like this and it can be interpreted in different ways. I don’t like to tell people do this or do that. I won’t tell anyone not to buy, or to buy. I just list the facts and let everyone decide for themselves. Is that fair?
Other manufacturers are surely looking at copying the concept
Given this it’s almost certain they would bite the cost & invest in a new mold and pump more product given the enviable premium price & brand creation.
he might be less inclined to interject in long discussions ever since devin refused to listen in the dd hanger thread, who would blame him. that said he’s rollin’ on popoca’s
If someone cares to model the wheel with/without the foam “fingers” even if very simplistic, I can make a comparative simulation to see if it affects the core
I have been on the fence about whether to pickup a set of these. After reading this entire thread, I am going to wait for a v2. I have my fingers crossed for them to adopt the kegel core because I suspect it is a stronger design and most of my favorite wheels already use it so it is easier to share pulleys. Switching the core design in a considerable way would make it easy to spot the new ones and would convince me to jump on-board. It would also show a level of consideration from the manufacturer that I do not expect but would be thrilled to see.
