this project may sound ambitious, but I think its worth any effort for me
The current Situation:
Some people like the feel of trucks like “originals S10” or similar “Hamboards”.
But these trucks are not made for eskate in any way. they have a lot of mechanical issues which have to be improved.
My Question: May it be possible to create a new version from the ground up of those trucks for esk8 use?
Personally I have no Idea of CAD->CAM and CNC Fabrication.
So I am really looking for help, ideas and companions here
These are super cool not only because of the wave cam, but also because they came from a scooter originally (the Kickboard K2) and because it’s a completely bushing-less design they have very little slope for a cast truck.
As @LongboardTechnology states, different cam profiles could be made for different levels of lean and responsiveness and stability.
I think part of the problem with a Bolt pivot trucks for esk8 use is we casually ride at high speeds so stability is key.
unlike a channel truck or pretty every truck where the kingpin tightening reduces slop, I am pretty sure the small surface area of your bolt pivot bushing will have a hard time fighting deflection on it’s own. The only thing helping being the spring and cam pressing the hanger in place a little. I may be wrong but video seems to show that.
So basically I wonder why you are drawing from this design more than something like the Rojas.
Just guessing but it could be springs over urethane, or the wave cam aspect is intriguing enough to warrant complexity.
There are several discussions about those issues for long time.
Thx for posting these videos. They give a perfect overview.
So far I can tell, it would make no sense, to modify the current product. The issues are inherrent with the current manufacturing quality.
I tested many of those trucks and all of them had different tolerances.
(Can make one acceptable truck when buying 4 of them and combine the good parts.)
I contacted the “Originals” guys by email several times, but did not receive an answer.
Then these “Hamboard” trucks are definitely from different factory, but they have similar issues. High tolerances, bad axles.
Guess a “precision” version, made from cnc parts would be necessary to make that design work.
Yes, in fact its the unique feel they have. I tried many other setups like dkp, tkp, rkp with cones barrels and all kind of washers, all kinds of hanger widths, did my best to make that happen, but I could never archieve that unique feeling from the S10 wavecam/spring design.
The special thing here is, that the resistance of the trucks is “linear”.
So you dont have to press much harder to get more turn.
The wavecams also push the hanger up while turning.
They also have linear rebound and linear self centering.
This leads to:
easy and fun zig zag in the city. slalom everywhere
surfy but controlled feeling because of that linear resistance
direct connection to the street
nimble and planted
Possible downsides of that design:
turning may feel too loose. you “fall” in the turn. no progressive bushing will stop you from leaning the board hard. It will just lean and turn, same like a surfboard…
needs more attention at high speeds
I can understand that many skaters will not like them at first try because of that different resistance behavior.
Maybe its not for everyone, but that should be a matter of taste.
The current problem is that the quality and reliability is not there… If that design is done proper and precise, I’m sure it will find more friends
If anybody was to make a derivative design, I wouldn’t base a lot of inspiration too much off of Original Trucks.
This version of the trucks on a K2 kickboard is IMO a much better execution on the design.
There’s plenty of ways to remix things and make the design better. Original trucks are what they are probably because it was the most suitable existing variant of K2’s design to slap on a deck and turn into a skateboard.
Nuclear Pickle trucks also had a few notable differences in their take. Instead of a 2 sided mirrored cam, they had a 3 sided cam. That potentially a good way to keep the cam strong against developing cracks, and it still has plenty of range of motion.
Nuclear Pickle also has a Urethane Bushing alongside the spring, which could be worth emulating.
This is me being biased, but if you want a design that has a cam, linear progression, and can handle high speed, my preferred starting point would be Other Planet trucks.
I also agree with just drawing from the Rojas direction. Rojas use such a simple design, it doesn’t even require that much precision to deliver a really precise action. Rojas and Originals are surprisingly similar, only that they use really different styles of resistance.
Which is why the waterbourne surf adapter ends up working so well for esk8 despite it not being originally designed for it. It is super flexible at low or no speed but gets more stable with speed. To the point where I have almost lost my balance a few times at stop lights when it is windy out but while riding at speed those extra side winds don’t cause much of an issue.
I do highly suggest that you ensure that replacement springs are readily available at all times. Whether that means you have a supplier who keeps them in stock at all times, or you design it to use a commonly available spring that exists already and is easy to find at a store that sells parts. (think an auto store if you design it to use an existing car spring)
Making sure it easy to get them will ensure that the truck is always safe to use since you don’t want people trying to use a worn spring because it would take a month or more to get replacements. Even if it wouldn’t be your fault that their truck failed and they got hurt, it would still look bad and might discourage other people from trying them out or buying them.
I know I am not the only one to call it less stable when standing still. Someone used one on an extra long long board and they had to keep moving and have people jump on the board since doing it while standing still was too hard. They kept loosing balance when not moving but 5+ people could ride it once it was moving.
Thx for that info. I did not know about those before.
The design looks more clever to me then the “originals”. But its little bulky looking. Interesting that they put a bushing in and have adjustable resistance.
Could that be done with cnc efficently? Not sure about that large baseplate…
Wow… that is really cool. Did not know about them before.
I see, they use a large bushing which provides the turning resistance for the hanger. On their website, they claim that there are “linear” bushings available.
But their overall design looks very overkill and luxery. I guess this design can be done in a not so sofisticated manner?
It looks like there are less parts involved then in the spring truck designs.
As i see, this Roja truck is dedicated for downhill riders. Quite different from Surf/Carve customers… ? (just wondering)
There is a lot of information about those trucks on youtube. But I did not ride them myself.
But this design looks quite simple, which is a clear advantage.
Does anyone know why there is no truck with that design produced anymore?
Also not sure about motor mounts and motor weight. The center screw can move up and down freely… so on bumpy road, the hanger may jump up and down rattling?
Enlarging one of the holes controlling the hanger will do this and make the center less stiff and the response more linear. Double the diameter of the stock hole in the bushing so it does not initially engage the control pin until you are off center a bit.
Well first because the company that made them over-committed to production on too early a design.
The Company was only successful enough to stick the first production design, and was stuck with it for subsequent production runs. Never built up the capital to do anything new after. And a product that’s not fully baked isn’t going to last on the market perpetually without updates.
As for why nobody else has picked up the design. I think the main reason is there’s nobody invested in it enough to give it a go, much less take up the challenge of trying to improve them.
