Breakfast Blend: LY DropCarve38 | BN M1 Gear Drives | FS 6374s | Xenith | 10s4p P42A

I know he’s thought more about the tradeoffs between adjustability, part count, holes, etc than I have. There’s no free lunch. The downsides to my approach is 1) unequal spacing on the new mounting holes, and 2) open holes into the drive case.

You’ll notice there aren’t more mounting holes on the blank side close to the pinion gear. That’s because they’re blocked by the motor. This is the reason I went up from the original 3 (evenly spaced) mounting holes to my 4 biased holes. Because of the forces involved, I believe there won’t be any appreciable drawbacks, but if I was designing these for volume manufacturing I’d probably think deeper.

On downside 2), I’ll have to come up with a way to block the holes. It’s not a big deal, and easily solved (and the drives gears aren’t waterproof anyway), but still a downside nonetheless.

Thanks Brian. I have to say, I think I’m leaning hard into the epoxy-all-the-things camp. It was much easier than I expected, and enjoyable to see (and feel) the end result. Also, not terrible to sand and fix when not perfect. It’s really versatile stuff.

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I personally would epoxy grub screws into those, if they’re tapped

It took me a while to enter the camp, but now I understand why all the highest-tech items like spacecraft and aircraft and racecars and top-tier-bicycles are all made heavily out of composites. You really can make amazing things happen with them.

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They’re thru holes, and the wall is thin. I’ll come up with something 3D printed most likely. It would be nice to not lose the original mounting holes.

Edit:

You really can make amazing things happen with them.

Oh, also, tomorrow I’m going to fill the drop-through cutouts with white pigmented epoxy. Very excited. I see no downside. Could throw some fiberglass in there. I have tons.

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- PROBLEM - Wire routing from motors to enclosure

Parts: Flipsky 6374 sensored x2, loopkey, 5.5x2.1 charging port, LED strips x2

More specifically, routing wires from inside to outside the enclosure AND maintaining some level of water resistance (and full functionality) takes carefully planning.

System design drivers:

  • Maximum water/weather resistance
  • Some level of maintainability (i.e. no permanent mounting)
  • Smart choices for charge port, loop key, LED positioning for ergonomics & usability
  • Reduce unnecessary wire length inside the enclosure to converse space
  • System longevity

- SOLUTION -

Custom tunnel risers to allow cleaner routing

I started by designing and printing an XT90 mount in PLA that attached via the existing truck screw.

After some tweaks, I incorporated it into a riser pad. The 6mm thick pad included a diagonal wire channel for a deck-top mounted charge port. (mid print here)

Final version, in 100% infill black PETG, cleaned up the design by sticking with a more simple central tunnel. This tunnel goes the full length, allowing the charge port wiring to route through the large central hole, as well as LED wiring from the end of the truck. I also closed off the slit in the XT90 mount - it now requires the connector to be soldered around the mount, but it makes for a more robust and visually pleasing design.


Mock mounting shows the locations, and the tunnel.


The generous 10mm dia tunnel should allow two sets of small gauge wire.

Files attached for anyone’s use:
Baseplate Tunnel Riser - 6mm v2.stl (420.2 KB)
Baseplate Tunnel Riser - 6mm v2.step (75.8 KB)
Baseplate Tunnel Riser with XT90 Mount - v2.step (503.2 KB)
Baseplate Tunnel Riser with XT90 Mount - v2.stl (1.2 MB)
Loopkey Holder - v2.step (364.9 KB)
Loopkey Holder - v2.stl (1.3 MB)


5/19/2021 Update

I ended up scrapping the rear truck baseplate mounted loopkey design, because I needed the room for wire routing.

Taking advantage of @ducktaperules cable riser from his Double Trouble build (that he so nicely provided the files for):
image

I repurposed it will some modifications. It allows for routing:

  • qty 2 x MR60 connectors, with 6 phase wires
  • qty 2 x JST connectorsm, with sensor wires
    -and now, additionally-
  • center charge port wiring
  • 22awg-4 conductor LED wiring pass through
  • loop on either side for a 180deg route for all motor wires
  • MR60 “lids”

I also modified the front tunnel riser (aka Power Riser) a bit for fun:


Also with a 22-4 cable pass through.

With so many lofts, radii, extrusions, planes, etc the MR60JST riser was not my finest CAD work. Eventually I had to stop fine tuning and just print it. It required a small amount of dremeling afterward, but otherwise it worked.

Filled all connections with neutral cure silicone sealant to be safe. It’s a very tight fit in there. Once the trucks are mounted on top of the riser, nothing’s going nowhere. Silicone wires allow for pretty tight bend radius.

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- PROBLEM - Enclosure needs waterproofing.

Parts: Fiberglass enclosure, solid neoprene rubber gasket, silicone sealant, foam tape

I’m designing towards an IP54 rating. Of course, I hope to not have to test this, but it’s inevitable.

- SOLUTION - Stack solid rubber, firm foam tape, and butyl tape to allow adequate height for the battery pack and conform to the curvature of the deck. Add silicone sealant to seal around holes. Make sure enclosure mounting holes are SURROUNDED by waterproofing barrier. Route wires through the waterproof barrier, seal around wires.

Enclosure layering stack-up (from the ground up):

  1. Fiberglass enclosure
  2. 3/4" wide x 5/16" thick - closed cell foam neoprene tape, to soak up height differences
  3. Butyl tape (used wayyy too much) to seal
  4. Solid rubber neoprene riser, 1/4" thick

I started with a solid sheet of rubber in order to have an uncut, continuous ring gasket (and it was the same price as strips).

Cut the outside with an exacto blade

Marked out the component spacing and cut the inside

Test fit - looks good, too bad I need more height for the 21700 cells against the curved deck

Tried 1/2" thick neoprene foam tape. Too thick.

Laid down one full layer of butyl tape around the entire length of the base gasket. This is too much butyl tape.


Butyl tape is impervious to pain, to curses, to your futile cries of anguish. Also, you cannot drill through butyl tape - it gets everywhere.

After ordering probably 4 different rolls of neoprene foam tape, I finally settled on 5/16" thick as the perfect height needed.


How to get wires through the wall of the enclosure?

There’s a few ways to do this. Traditional options include:

  • Drill holes in the enclosure, mount connectors, and epoxy/screw in place
  • Drill holes in the enclosure, mount cable pass-through
  • Cut a large hole on one edge of the enclosure, feed wires under, forget about waterproofing
  • Route a wire channel into the deck itself. Seal wires to deck.

I went a different route for a few reasons. Mainly, I didn’t have enough room for large, bulky, waterproof connectors between the enclosure and the motors/trucks. At 7 plies of canadian maple, I also didn’t trust the deck to begin removing material to route some channels. Lastly, waterproofing is a must. Dead electronics kill the fun.

I decided the create a single piece, multi-cable pass through, and seal it to the deck, and around it on all sides. The cables themselves have the smallest cross-section, vs large connectors, and require the smallest holes. One potential weakness to this approach is that it’s possible to get water traveling inside the wire jacketing via capillary action, if the ends are exposed to the elements.

Initial attempt to drill nice holes directly in the solid rubber gasket with a 3D printed drill guide. Spoiler: you can’t drill rubber with a normal bit. This did not work.

Redesigned, single piece, cable pass-through. Cut a space in the rubber gasket for this to fit.

Test fit. It’s wider than the gasket on purpose, and just slightly shorter in height.


Permanent installation:

I sealed the outside with black silicone sealant, to blend in with the deck, enclosure, and wiring.
I sealed the inside with clear silicone sealant, to allow for easier inspection to ensure no leaks/gaps.

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- PROBLEM - Full electronics wiring in a very tight space

Parts: 

- SOLUTION - Route motor cables backwards under the truck and 180 degrees around into enclosure.

The wiring plan

For the most part, scale and layout accurate:

2021-04-11 Update
Revamped the wiring entirely. Will write up summary soon. Here’s the end result:




Re-ran VESC tool motor detection and everything works! Small victories.

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Oof

Specifications

ITEM DETAILS
System Weight: 27.8 lbs (12.6 kg)
System Dimensions: 37.9” L x 9.7” W x ??” H
Ground Clearance: 1.2” (30 mm) to motors
Range: untested (16-32 mi calculated)
Loaded Speed: untested (28.5 mph calculated)
Max Speed: untested (31.7 mph calculated)
Max Torque 15.7 ft-lb calculated (21.3 Nm)
Acceleration: untested
Power Consumption untested (Wh/km)
Motors: 2x 190kV 6374 Brushless DC Outrunner
Battery: 605 Wh - 10S4P 21700 Li-Ion
Drive: 4140 steel spur gears, 2.78 ratio
Wheels: 110 mm diameter, polyurethane
Trucks: 6061-T6 aluminum, 11.7” (297mm) track width
Deck: Canadian Maple, 7 plies, mild concave
Electronics Enclosure: Fiberglass
Control: Wireless controller w/ basic on-screen telemetry
IP: Designed for IP54 (untested)

New helmet, who dis


https://www.smithoptics.com/en_US/mainline-tech.html

Smith Mainline MIPS
Downhill certified
770g total weight
super breathable
Way more streamlined than my Shoei RF1100 , much lighter, fits like a glove.

First real ride, 10.3 miles.

Found some local hooligans to cruise with. Probably should’ve fully charged the battery first. I had to dip halfway through and limp back home on fumes.

Also, that VX2 battery bar is deceptively small. I went from ~60% batt to ~20% in the blink of an eye.

Had speed wobbles starting around 22-5mph. I’ll have to put the cup washers back on the trucks and tighten everything up. Also… need some grip tape.

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How can you deplete that much of the vx2 battery in just one ride?? I can do 60-70 km in a week and I don’t normally go below 70%

Not the remote’s battery, sorry. The center bar readout for the board’s battery pack on the LCD screen. It’s so small, it’s like an oldschool cellphone.

image

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What a great thread. Quick question:

I see Fusion 360 but I’m wondering what another software you’re using for the electrical layout? Very handy to have components to scale and look like the real thing!

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Ah yes, I know the struggle :joy:. It would be a lot better it it had a percentage or directly the voltage. I also get some sagging so if you’re accelerating the measurement isnt even remotely precise

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Total overkill, but I’m using Fritzing.
It’s intended to help place components and route connections to build custom pcbs, but I’m using it as a glorified ‘paint’ program. The latest version requires a mandatory ‘donation’, but you can easily find the previous release for free download (legal).

1 Like

- PROBLEM - Riding in the dark is scary

Goals

  • Increased safety - higher rider visibility
  • Increased safety / allow night riding - forward navigation lighting
  • System is easy to maintain - wirelessly update/develop (OTA updates)
  • System is water resistant - lights are IP rated, hardware is sealed, no need to open enclosure
  • Limit manual actions required - implement passively triggered ‘smart’ systems
  • No additional batteries (single charge port) - power from main battery
  • Ability to develop alternative lighting modes - utilize individually addressable LEDs

- SOLUTION - Develop front and rear smart LED strips

Parts List

Purpose Part Details
Microcontroller Arduino Nano 33 IoT $19.99, MicroCenter
Level Shifter TI SN74AHCT125 $1.50, Adafruit
LED Strip APA102 strip, 60 LED/m, IP67 in waterproof sleeve $10.85, AliExpress
Silicone Housing T1220 Flexible Silicone Gel Tube, IP67 $11.55, AliExpress
Power Supply 5V, 3.2A Step-Down Voltage Regulator D36V28F5 $11.95, Pololu
Ambient Light Sensor Photoresistor $0.01

Front truck test:


12 Likes

What a build you have here! So peculiar and unique. Tiny improvements and details everywhere. I applaud you!

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- PROBLEM - Catch all / finishing touches (ha)

- SOLUTION- Motor + Drive Covers

v1 modification of @poastoast 's BN M1 GD guards, printed in TPU
(extended length, cutout for forward facing motor cables)

Installed

After a quick 5mile cruise with the dog

v2 design update:

  • Enlarged mounting holes to thru holes, so I don’t have to actually remove the gear drive fasteners to install these. I value the gear drives being fully assembled & loctited (and staying that way). I think its good design practice not to share fasteners between multiple parts, especially on wear items like guards.
  • Lengthened the motor section to cover the entire XX74 cans.
  • Adjusted the cable hole to for better fit, reinforced to hopefully preempt cable issues
  • Chopped some of the circumference off. I could be proven wrong, but I don’t think the boardside section of the motor part does much. This works better with my cable cutout.

BnS [L] - 74XL v2.stl (229.2 KB)
BnS [L] - 74XL v2.step (189.4 KB)
BnS [R] - 74XL v2.stl (229.4 KB)
BnS [R] - 74XL v2.step (189.0 KB)

v3a / v3b design update:

  • A: Tried wrapping the forward face further along the motor can (unnecessary)
  • B: Extended the angled sweep deeper over the backside of the motor (additional protection)


v4 design update:

  • I’m happy with the protection these provide, but I could not get them to sit well and stay put. I’m ready to admit that VHB tape and snug holes are not enough to keep these in place on long rides. After my last 20+ mi ride, they were still on, but not as securely as I’d like - there’s no replacement for mounting these with fasteners into the drive case.
  • All 3 mounting holes in the guards are now 4.5mm dia (standard M4 clearance hole)
  • I’ve replaced the stock M4 x 12mm L fasteners with 14mm L zinc coated alloy steel to account for the 2mm thick guards.


BnS [L] - 74XL v4.stl (253.8 KB)
BnS [R] - 74XL v4.stl (254.0 KB)

- SOLUTION- More robust charge port cover

v1 design draft

I keep stepping on my top mounting charge port cover and losing it on rides. Time for something a bit more snug.

v2 update (released)
*Adjusted the depths and diameters for a snug fit. Now, it works great! Borderline difficult to remove.


Charge Port Cover v2.stl (516.3 KB)

6 Likes

Hey there, I like your v2 improvement over the poastoast guards, they’re really pretty compared to the regular bash n splash guards.
I’m curious if you had any noticeable temperature changes with the guards installed? Any issues since you began riding them? Ever had a pebble or such get trapped between the cans and the guards?
Thanks.

1 Like

Sorry for the delay, I didn’t see this.

That’s really what’s important A E S T H E T I C

I didn’t have any data before I installed them, so unfortunately, I can’t give you a comparison / temp delta. I’ve ridden through mud, puddles, dirt, sand… no issues so far. The last iteration are pretty open - they’re only protected on the bottom half, and made of flexible TPU, so I wouldn’t worry about debris.

Here’s my last ride (10 minutes ago). Was trying to do a max range test, but the battery wasn’t quite fully charged and I tapped out at 13% remaining. It got a bit sketch in the dark. Still working on arduino controlled auto-on lighting.

58C (136F) max temp trying to push it pretty much the whole time. No hills in houston, so I made do with speed as much as I could.

4 Likes

Small update - swapped straight cut gears for helicals. Excited to take this thing for a test drive today.

Posted a gear removal guide:


Also finally moved the smart lighting system from breadboard to permanent wiring. (Difficult to see, but there’s an arduino nano, a buck converter, and a level shifter in this photo lol)


Don’t think my terrible wiring survived on the front hanger. Only getting power to one section. Soldering led strips is awful. Probably need smaller gauge wire too.

9 Likes

What a spectacular build! Mandy thanks to you for documenting and sharing your problems and solutions - a real credit to what I’m sure was many hours spent troubleshooting and evolving your build. I hope you keep it up and continue sharing.

1 Like