Track racing - setup and riding style

Safety
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#21

Last week was school holiday so the track was occupied by people willing to pay way more than I am to be on the track. So I had to wait for this week to come.

Today I finally had a new deck ready. I have had Redembers Obeah6 and the Xapham on the track. The Obeah6 wheelbase is 10 cm. (3.9inch) shoter than the Xapham. When on the Obeah I felt I could use a lager deck to be more stable and when on the Xapham it felt to long, making it harder to make the the turns.

So I made a new deck with a wheelbase in-between the two. I cut the deck as wide as possible as I want to try a really wide deck. Will properly cut it very narrow later to try that and see what feels best.

Over the last year I have adjusted my setup to get the right “feeling” on the track. Every time I was left unsatisfied. It has mostly been the turning that didn’t feel right. But with this new deck I am really close. This wheelbase seem to be perfect for this track and the 3-link trucks.

For the first time I didn’t feel that the setup was the limiting factor. The board did what I wanted it to do and I felt that it was only my skills finding the right speed and line that was the limiting factor. That felt awesome. Now I can concentrate way more on my riding skills without getting irritated at the setup.

The wide deck (30cm/11.8inch) felt good. Even though it is wider than I have tried before I didn’t have to move I front foot as much. This would be from the better turning I have now. It felt really stable and good to grab.

I will leave the setup like this for now and concentrate on lines and speed. Nja… not completely… I will make some small adjustments.

I want to go back to rear wheel drive. I have a feeling that will feel better accelerating out of the turns where I push back with my rear foot.

I still have one option left to give the trucks a smaller turning radius. I want to do that because as it is now, in order to do a very sharp turn I still have to throw all my body weight in to the turn while grabbing the board (frontside). That’s a little hard to control. I want to do those super tight turns two places on the track to get a quicker leave out those two turns.

I had a karting instructor watch me drive and he gave me some useful tips on how to attack the track. We have to find out where the driving quality between the karts and my board differs, so we can find the perfect line. He offered to adjust one of the karts to go a little faster than me and then be my lead around the track. Doing that we would be able to see where I am slow compared to the kart. We will do that some day. A day where his boss is not there.

The new setup made me faster. I was consistently under 36.5 which was hard two weeks ago. On the last lap I cut 0.02 sec. of my best lap. Not much but still a best lap. And that lap didn’t feel good. I see lots of improvements in that lap, and feel that this is not the fastest I will do.

New best time - from 36.29 to 36.27.

41.50 sec
40.50 sec.
38.93 sec.
38.53 sec.
37.67 sec.
37.49 sec.
38.78 sec.
37.19 sec.
36.96 sec.
36.66 sec.
36.29 sec.
36.27 sec.

The new deck - roughly cut:

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Complete board
IMG_0216

18 Likes
#22

So how how did u just make that deck?

4 Likes
#23

Ha… its been a long proces. First I learned how draw in fusion, to make the drawings of the mold. Then learning how to use a cnc to cut the mold. Then all the other stuff. I am far from where I want to be, but this is a good start and it works pretty good. Fortunately we have good people here to torture with questions.

5 Likes
#24

I dont want to derail your thread, maybe start another one on the deck lol? That is crazy, looks like its a drop down too. That blows my mind, id love to see how you did that. I think your really onto something with the wide deck too. Let me know if you want to get rid of that one for another build Id love to give it a tilt!

4 Likes
#25

It was a blast today not thinking about the setup. Just concentrating on lines and shit.

I put the advice I got last time into action today. Mainly concentrating on cutting two lines on the track. First one being the one where I am closest to the camera where I need to be close the the barrier the camera stands on. Second one the straight soft curve where I need to be close to the barrier closest to the camera as well. And then starting the hairpin after the straight later. (Not on the video).
And then concentrating on being smooth.

I had a lap that felt really good, so when I came to the straight I gave it a little more than usually. That lap I cut 0,68 sec. of the previous bet lap. Wow. But I must say that I couldn’t continue. My front of of totally off and wouldn’t have made the next hairpin. But it was a new best lap. The next couple of weeks I will work on consistency. Doing fast laps again and again and…

My focus was to follow the blue / green line where I before have done the red / green line.
That means that I before turn 7 have a better angel to do turn 7.
I sjould start the turn at the blue dot at turn 1. I have initiated earlier. Turn one is one they “sacrifice” in order to get quicker out of turn 2 where turn 3 and 4 are not hair pins and the speed can be greater.

EDIT: I think the main reason that I improved that much today, was that I also was more on the throttle sooner out of the turns, But that is possible only with the line is correct.

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I filmed and the fast lap ended up on my insta :slight_smile:

41.50 sec
40.50 sec.
38.93 sec.
38.53 sec.
37.67 sec.
37.49 sec.
38.78 sec.
37.19 sec.
36.96 sec.
36.66 sec.
36.29 sec.
36.27 sec.
35.59 sec.

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9 Likes
#27

any advantages this has over a VESC variant like this?

VESC is alot more configurable than just 0-100%

1 Like
#28

Don’t esc’s can actually burst higher that a vesc based controller?

#29

I am not particularly technical gifted so I can’t give a technical answer. But this spring I had some problems with a burned fuse in an antispark and I reached max amp in a hard acceleration with foc boxes which short it down. Never again! So I contacted Brandon for advice regarding a setup with a big safety margin, he suggested this set up. It can handle 50 mph uphill and crazy speed on very steep such as 16% I did this summer at the uphill event in Denmark. Brandon writes elsewhere (from the SRB Esc approach):

For the track where speeds are moderate I am sure a vesc would be fine.

2 Likes
#30

It would be funny if someone did this track now that never did it before and beats your time.
Even funnier if they were on VESC based controllers.

I’m getting pretty jealous of these car esc setups. They seem to outperform VESC based ones easily.

I’m even more jealous of on how much time you get to do this. And this track is so nice and clean looking.
Keep it coming David. Loving all the track line and setup info.

6 Likes
#31

Curious what the power curve looks like on your setup vs a high power VESC setup. Any idea what kind of amps you’re putting through that motor?

edit: love this thread and the videos, keep it coming. My dream is to have access to a track like this.

2 Likes
#32

Yeah it would be funny. I like to see how good I really am. I know I am a slow learner when it comes to speed. Unfortunately the interest for racing here in Denmark are almost non existent so I have no one to compare to. I have had others on the track with me. But they were not on setups ideal for the track. Either pu wheels or trucks far from dialed optimal for the track

On the track my guess is that most esc/vesc/motor/battery setups can compete on equal terms. It’s more about grip, turning abilities and the riders skills than the power of the board. We saw that at the wild card world cup where good evolve riders won.

I hit between 25-31 mph on the straight. Last year I was clocked at 24 mph but it feels like I am faster on the straight this year. Will see if I can clock it again some day.

And still, eskate racing is in its infancy. So we have not yet seen the really good riders. I mean just compare to the insane skills park boarders and downhillers have. I doesn’t even come close to what those guys are doing. Will be good to see when eskate racing develops what the crazy guys can do. Until then a 45 year half decent rider can enjoy himself and his fantasy of being really good :slight_smile:

More time on the track is really something that pushes me foreward. I really enjoy this and I prioritize the weekly track time highly.

@RyEnd here are the log from this week. The spikes just befor the 50min. mark were the fastest lap. As you can see track doesn’t require that much power.

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5 Likes
#33

Wild card Finals 18" in California had a single stock Evolve AT that made the Finals not making podium. I think Tanner Bodrero was on that board. The podium had all modified Evolve Boards . Track record belonged to Luke Belz at the end of the day on DIY. Maintaing turn momentum is the key. Has to be a balance of rider and vessel. Much more to it than hopping on a board. Just like any racing sport it’s a work in progress. Always looking for new tools to put in the box.

5 Likes
#34

I have begun watching the tutorial series from driver61 again. I concentrated on this episode:

He talks about the basic of throttling and breaking when turning. Especially that transition between the two needs to be smooth as hell.

That led me to think about how I could improve that. And it led me to dialing in the throttle and break curve again. Beside that the mamba xlx have this feature that drags/breaks the motor when the throttle is in neutral. It can be set to 0 to 100% draggingbreaking. I played with that today.

I have fund that I dont like coasting. The board feels “uncontrollable”. I like either being on the throttle or on the breaks. But going directly from the throttle to the breaks is very hard without making the board twitch. Mostly because there is this split second where the board coasts.

With this drag feature the board doesn’t coasts but goes directly into breaking. That helps tremendously making the shift between throttle and breaking smooth.

I mainly needs to break hard one place on the track. That’s right after the straight going into a hairpin. Today I let go of the throttle and the board breaks immediately and I can further the break with the break throttle. And when I let go of the breaks it still breaks until I hit the throttle again. No twitchy coasting.

Also this drag feature helps me break before other turns where I dont need to be as hard on the break as the turn after the straight. I approach the turn and I just release the throttle and the board breaks. No need to engage the break throttle making it very smooth.

I had the drag amount on both 10 and 20%. 20% was to much. The breaking wasn’t smooth at all and the board was twitchy. 10% seems pretty good. Makes it all smooth. I will try again later to bump it up to 20% when I have gotten completely used to this feature.

I had forgot my kneepads so I didn’t wanted to give it all. So I spend most of my hour on the track adjusting the above. Though I did do a couple of laps at the end a little harder. And in one of them I got below 36sec (35.87) which is the second fastest lap I have ever done. That lap didn’t feel hard or anything, so its promising in regards of gutting more from my lap times.

5 Likes
#35

I have been wondering about the drag feature but have yet to try it on my board. I am curious what lap times the go-karts can do on your track.

3 Likes
#36

YES in racing you NEVER coast, you race to get to the apex and fight to get to the point where you’re on the throttle again… don’t coast ever!

9 Likes
#37

I said it last week and will say it again. Its really nice not to worry about board setup and just concentrating on lines and style. Today I focussed on the first two turns. This is the most technical part of the track. I come from the fastest part to an hairpin, thats followed directly by another hairpin and then a relatively fast part again.
It is very difficult to find the right speed and steering angle into the first hairpin. The karting instructors want one to “sacrifice” the first hairpin, making that a later, slower and more sharp turn than normally ideal. By doing that they can get on the throttle sooner going out of the next hairpin. And every mhp we can get with us out of the turn will follow us on the faster part.

But making the turn slower, require a significant amount of breaking. And man that is difficult. I easy take to much speed out of the board making me slower than good is. And even though I get a better line it sometimes are to little speed compared with these turns done with less optimal line.

In the video I don’t get the best line. I could be closer to the apex and also having a later apex which bring my board pointing to the next apex sooner. I need to be closer to the first hairpin than to the barrier of the next hairpin.

Second video: different angle better line. But not better time.

Heel side turns… I have fund that I ride with my left shoulder pointing forward. That decreases my field of vision doing my heel side turns. I often have my back to the turn making it difficult to have good sight of the turn. And that makes it harder to know when to start the turn and how hard. When I try to position myself more with my front pointing forward, I lose some control. This is something I will see if I can change, or find a good solution to.

I see lots of areas where I can improve in style and line. Next goal is to get below 35sec. I got a new fastest time today with 35.43. I think below 35 in within reach.

The straight is practically a very wide 180 turn. I do need good grib to make that part of the track. Today it felt like I was on the edge of the grib. The wheels started to make a little noice. I really don’t want to loose grib on that part of the track going 45kmh / 28mph hanging in a toe side turn.

@RipTideSports Kart lap times are around 29sec. Think the fastest ever done was 27.something sec by a pro rider. But I am not sure. I have been in a kart once and did 32 sec.

The karts have the following sepcs: Top speed 120km/t downsized to 65km/t. HP: 22. KW: 16.5. 2 lithium ion (26,5V 40AH). Charge time is 80% of drivetime. So normally they drive for 10 min. and charge for 8 min. They have two karts pr. nose/team and swap between them.

41.50 sec
40.50 sec.
38.93 sec.
38.53 sec.
37.67 sec.
37.49 sec.
38.78 sec.
37.19 sec.
36.96 sec.
36.66 sec.
36.29 sec.
36.27 sec.
35.59 sec.
35.43 sec.

3 Likes
#38

MoeStooge, any chance of releasing info on your 3 link trucks? Im ok at fabricating and would love to have a pair of your trucks. Im planning on going with your battery/ dual esc/dual motor combo…

3 Likes
#39

I think @MoeStooge sells completes every now and again IIRC. I’d be surprised if he would give away IP he’s been working on for years.

2 Likes
#40

I’d be interested in purchasing a truck set, if that’s the only way to get up to speed.

#41

Not to derail the thread, but what are those stabilizer looking things on the back (?) of your board?