As someone who regularly has to wrangle engineers I can tell you this meetings about half off the rails, to support a previous point though I think we should fork the code base, VESC as the reference base and OESC (open electric speed controller) as a more community driven effort to be more welcoming to external devs.
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TldrâŚ(stopped at trampas âif you like to manage software projectsââŚ)
If we are all relying solely on benjamin, then that is a seriously bad situation. As investor i would not want to invest (my FIRST question when we talk about investing is âwhat when you die?â)
Even if not on purpose, but the guy can get ill very quickly, burnout, personal issues,⌠Software code needs to be structured and readable for a normal programmer. If that is not the case, you are simply told to leave.
Yes. I deal with software releases daily. Release Notes, install guides, user testing, software testing, installing (segregated).
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On a side note, can we talk about this for a minute? IMO this one of things that derails the discussion. It cannot be denied that a lot of work went into the VESC Tool this year, but how much of it was actually desired by users and how much by Frank stearing the software to his own purpose. Also, how much was done by other people and then âcopiedâ to the VESC Tool?. Compared to a year ago, the current UI is garbage, its more confusing to new users than ever before, it contains features that add complexity but do not increase dependability.
@Trampa doesnât actually want your help, he wants your money. He wants you to help by giving Ben and/or Trampa money, nothing else is acceptable.
Do I even need to comment on this? 
To all the folks that jump in to defend @Trampa when he is called to task, there is plenty of evidence that Frank/Trampa is anti-competition and anti-innovation (unless it a Trampa/BV innovation). All these claims to impartiality immediately followed by âbut Frank is rightâ is gotten to the point of ludicrous.
In the wide world of everything the VESC means less than crap. To us in this tiny community of DIY skateboard builders, itâs the holy grail. Thatâs is why people, including myself, will not stand around doing nothing while one guy motivated by profit and who has no compunction against mishandling the truth shits all over us.
For me personally, as soon as there is an alternative ESC managed by people that arenât motivated by profit by any means, thatâs what I will be using.
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Think the most common problem here is that people dont believe/realise the amount of work that is behind the vesc. I agree that the way the code is managed is all in all a very stric method. But I probably would have done the same have I poured good portion of my time on this planet into it. In time
Benjamin might realise he needs to pass on the legacy somehow, but when/how he does that is up to him. You canât shame for beeing selfish on the off chance that he dies xD. As modest as Ben is, he probably didnât put the importance of his work in relation to his death. Thats pretty darn close to Blasphemy.
The âbrainiacsâ so far has done more harm than good if you ask Vedder.
I do understand that trampa comes off as evil here in there and gets pretty slammed for it in the process however. Iâm fine with that. People are free to think of a vendor w/e they like. All I ask is to donât be so fast to jump on the hate trampa train so damn quick 
holy shit, I think it fuels the fire more than it does good. And I say that with a very neutral relation to trampa. I dont think I own a trampa product that I did not buy second hand.
Compared to the Code that is the VESCâŚYes hardware is easy to makeâŚ
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It seems like we are pretty damn close to that.
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Benjamin often does some big code changes without everyone knowing. There is nothing preventing him from pushing code every day to github to dev branch, but he prefers not to do it. Then the whole thing gets released simultaneously with VESC Tool and everyone gets old firmware incompatible and âUPDATE FIRMWAREâ in your face.
Sometimes I have no time to incorporate the changes quickly in the Metr app, which leads to not optimal user experience. If I could see the code in the dev branch in advance, this would not happen. I hope this will get better which will also bring more transparency to VESC Project.
I donât think itâs realistic to fork VESC code. Benjamin does too much quality work. And he does accept pull requests even if he rewrites some of them, which sucks, but⌠I totally understand. You donât always have time to guide the contributor and tell the person to fix things all over and over again. Sometimes it is just faster to help and rewrite yourself 
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Amen, Iâd add that I dont need it to be open source or non profit myself. I donât mind people making money from their work, they become more accountable and there are less âwho pays for whatâ issues.
Charge me, whatevs, as long as it works and I dont have to sift through thread after thread of drama.
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Thatâs the thing, OS is supposed to foster innovation. This one doesnât.
If every piece of code has to be re-written before its merged, then whats the point of it being OS. If a vendor supporting an OS project is gonna minge and complain every time someone else does something that attaches to/uses/ references/etc. to the VESC then people who would normally contribute will stop.
As far as I can see the best VESC based ESCâs to come to market have been divergent to what @Trampa wants and has ended in threats of lawsuit. Thatâs counterproductive, irresponsible and just sad.
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Please have a look at commits for the past several months https://github.com/vedderb/bldc/commits/master a number of pull requests have been merged without rewriting. I actually see things getting better 
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How much do you think came from user requests on VESC-project.com?
How much came from Vedder?
How much came from team riders that figured out issues?
How much from Trampa?
- App: I think we can agree on that this App is very useful
- Low speed braking >> pull request
- Smart reverse came from team riders needing to reverse on a hill, strapped in.(safety in traffic)
- unicycle came form unicycle enthusiasts
- FOC openloop motor detection came from Marcos Chaparro
- Hysteresis reverse was requested by multiple users, pull request
- RT Data display in App: I wanted that badly and Benjamin as well
- Open Street Maps: From Benjaminâs self driving car project
- New Wizards: Benjamin Vedder
- simultaneous FW uploads are obviously helping to speed up the process
- NRF Quick pair is sort of nice if you use NRF remotes - me requesting it
- SWD Prog: Me requesting to use the VESC to flash NRFs ( Ben went a bit over the top)
- UAV CAN: Benjamin is drone expert and has done a lot with them.
- multiple bootloader upload: helps guys with third party ESCs
- IMU support: new features will need it. Including safety features.
- profiles were demanded from multiple sources
- Basic App functionality without the need to update the FWâ: Me
ToDo List: https://www.vesc-project.com/node/110
Feature requests: https://www.vesc-project.com/forum/7
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No, nothing useful came from you. Only copyright threats.
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OK, almost half of the additions are either at YOUR request for YOUR hardware, have little or nothing to do with esk8, already existed in other firmware or as add-on hardware and/or donât work.
You keep bragging about all this work that you fostered, yet half of it has nothing to do with us yet you expect us to pay for it? With all the misleading info you post, anti-competition approach and now a batch of features that most esk8 users donât use/want seems like a lot of the work was for Trampa therefore I shouldnât be asked to pay for it.
Its been months that I and many other people have asked for an ERPM with limited reverse for PPM, its demonstrated to work flawlessly in other firmware revisions, and yet you have no interest just excuses. A remote that requires the receiver to be mounted externally, a delicate piece of gear outside of the enclosure on a MTB. Anyone can see how silly that is yet all you have offered is more excuses and a lack of interest.
Do you see why very few people trust you to work on their interest anymore?
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I honestly donât understand the criticism here. Someone bakes free cookies for you. Eating it and saying âthank youâ is OK. Politely refusing because you donât like the cookies is also OK. But you donât come to the guy and tell him he should do better. Thatâs just rude.
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Because the guy that made the cookies is not the guy handing out the cookies. The guy handing out the cookies says theyâre free, then tries to stick his hand in your pocket. The next day he adds raisins, tells you he did you a favor and tries to stick his hand in your pocket again.
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Then get your cookies somewhere else?
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Sorry, I donât see how thatâs happening.
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They are the only cookies around, because the guy handing out cookies with one hand is smacking all the other cookie makers around with a stick.
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You are complaining to much. If you want a software, tailor made to your needs, you need to find someone to code it for you. Needs differ from person to person and even amongst esk8ers.
People request features, Vedder prioritizes them and works on them.
Then there are pull requests and they get merged.
If you donât want the features that got integrated or Vedder coded, simply donât use them.
A limited reverse speed on PPM is possible BTW.
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Here is a perfect exampleâŚ
Hi Andre,
as I have seen on the forum, you are planning to make bigger batches of the HW 6.
I want to inform you about the fact that we have obtained various design rights of the VESC SIX. They cover the product as a almost square box with cover plate, cables and connectors/ports. They donât show any colours, nor any specific graphics, and in consequence all colour and graphic options are protected. The designs are about the shape, proportions and visual appearance of the product we placed on the market and not about colour and logos and cover PCB design. .If you plan to put a HW 6 ESC on the market, please consider to use a substantial different design to ours to avoid clashing with our designs. There are many ways to design a housing and place the connectors. The Esk8 1.1 controller and FOCBOX are good examples of how a design can differ from ours.
The current design you use is obviously a straight copy of our product. Placing such a product on the market breaches our IP and confuses customers, thinking they can get the same product/quality from a different vendor at a different price tag. Since it is not the same product/quality, you should avoid to confuse customers by using the very same design. There is a good reason why you can protect your designs. It takes time and efforts to build up a fabulous product/brand reputation! If you steal a design you also steal some of the product reputation someone else built up.I hope you understand our position and will act accordingly, avoiding any clashes with our IP.
My advice to you is: Never copy a product, always get inventive and try to create your own product, having its own USPs and features. This way you avoid legal clashes and you put yourself in a better position when you build up your own brand and reputation. Always make your product distinctly different from the product of your competition.
I didnât bother to drag this out before but just canât stand what Frank is doing. To be honest I think Trampa got some great products but canât stand this behavior of Frank. @mmaner seems sometimes a bit overreacting but donât be fulled as he is damn right . Read email from Frank and see what self denying things he wrote.
They are the only cookies and everyone wants to use the same recipe without investing the time/money in coming up with a new recipe.
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