Metr Pro Updates

[rpasichnyk]

@pookybear

Update:
I didn’t have locations turned on. It’s paired and I can see telemetry now.

I added a check if location is turned on when hitting Scan button. It will open system location settings. Hope it will be less confusing now

[rpasichnyk]

I think two people accidentally touched battery solder joint on the VESC (plus+) with external antenna (minus-) during installation which resulted in burned modules. One person could not pair their phone, probably phone issue.

I mean it’s a bluetooth module, there are very few scenarios for it to fail. The most dangerous I can think of is a bad firmware update. By “bad” I mean it limits module functionality and in the worst case prevents further firmware updates. But we are making sure such things don’t happen.

One more thing that everyone should know, each Metr Pro is soldered and quality checked by @hexakopter Each module is connected to a real VESC and paired with a phone and records a short test record. Only after that we ship to a customer.

[xsynatic]

I thought there may have been scenarios where it straight up died for no apparent reason or it got hard bricked by software something like that but wow, nothing.

Your project is really solid. Even if a bug creeps in its usually fixed before most people realise its even there.
I have never seen a product with those kinds of speedy updates and fixes.

I really don’t want to ride without it.

One thing regarding the Ack FW. I don’t know if its my perception but i have the feeling that the Realtime data on the metr app is choppier compared to stock vesc fw.

Its been a while aince i used stock so i can’t remember 100%

[stan]

I think I’ve seen this question before, but it would be okay to write a new profile on our board while riding? (Maybe not applying the throttle) but when we are on it, and the wheels are turning.
Like if I would change from a 20Amps setup to a 30amps setup while riding.

[xsynatic]

as far as i know yes. I changed something while freerolling. Not fast but it didn’t have any affect on rolling.

[stan]

useful for our new regulations that are getting tougher and tougher here !

[xsynatic]

yes, ride with unlocked speed, police wants to stop you, swipe and lock it to 20km/h (or whatever is legal)

[rpasichnyk]

Thank you It also depends on how problems are reported, if people take time to describe properly, collect logs, screenshots, have some patience. You help us a lot!

@xsynatic

One thing regarding the Ack FW. I don’t know if its my perception but i have the feeling that the Realtime data on the metr app is choppier compared to stock vesc fw.

I would guess Ack FW has default baud rate 9600 which is quite slow. If you change it to 115200 (stock FW uses that), RT data will be snappier.

[xsynatic]

I’ll do my best. I hope you don’t mind me answering your questions even though my answers aren’t as professional as yours

@rpasichnyk

If you change it to 115200 (stock FW uses that), RT data will be snappier.

Good idea, i’ll try that later and see what happens.

[Chricious]

@rpasichnyk

I think it’s a bit unfair to put it like that. Me and @hexakopter want to cooperate, we think it’s a great idea to integrate Metr Pro into neoBOX. We offered 2 possible options: either @jeffwuneo ships BLE modules to us to program, then we send them back, or we provide our own pre-programmed modules that can be soldered on top of the neoBOX. We will make considerable price discount for any option as well as shipping savings which will ultimately result in everyone spending less money.

I would like to suggest a 3rd option. How do you feel about giving Jeff the IP for the module (you may or may not charge him something for it), he will manufacture and integrate it to the NeoBox and you charge customers for the app a one time fee of 40-50$, or even better for you from a business perspective (but might be not for the community) you charge a monthly fee of 2-5$. For the monthly revenue model you could also go freemium and offer a free basic version and a pay plan full version. In my eyes you have a huge opportunity now with Jeff. It would be a shame to not make a win-win-win out of that situation.

[ZachTetra]

I’d think the easiest thing is Jeff tacks on some amount to the NeoBox Dual to upgrade to the METR comparable variant, some of the money goes to the materials and parts cost, some goes to Jeff for his time, and some goes to @rpasichnyk and @hexakopter for developing and designing the original

Honestly I hate subscriptions…I’d much rather pay $40 now than $2/mo for the next few years…it’s just a hassle and pain

[jack.luis]

I like this idea. I don’t mind the app costing money. It could cost more and still make sense.

[rpasichnyk]

At the same time we want to keep full features for existing users who paid full price for Metr Pro. Which will result in a ton of work (support both solutions). This requires much more effort from our side. We currently don’t have resources. We want to work on other things!

I agree subscription / activation option is nice in theory, but it is completely different approach. For now we can only afford quick solution. If collaboration works, we will of course consider changing things, to make it better for everyone.

[ZachTetra]

So we’re looking at a typical METR Pro connected to another UART port but with pins instead of wires like the VX1 in some of the new FSESCs?

[Chricious]

I see, but if you would go with the one time activation fee, it should be easy to handle. Everybody who has bought the modules in past keep using it “for free” all other will pay the activation fee.

I see several benefits for all 3 parties in this.

1. For you. You don’t loose more time spending in producing, selling and shipping the modules. You have more time an capacities to spend on your core business, which is arguably the programming, updating, running the software part and offering a great service. Last but not least you can make more money out of it and scale faster and easier since you can charge the same price for just the app, what you are charging now for the module.

2. For Jeff. Jeff would be able to offer a killer feature to his product. It would boost sells instantly.

3. For the community. We would get a better and easier integration of the module and since Jeff would be able to produce the modules way cheaper than you, we could safe some money on it, since we wouldn’t need to pay extra shipping costs, to get the module. In fact nobody would need to pay any shipping costs anymore, besides for the actual NeoBox.

But that’s just how I see the things. I’m sure you have good reasons to do it your way.

[malJohann]

DRM the Metr for neoBOX, your current business model doesn’t change, and neoBOX gets added via in-app purchase.

[annihil8ted]

@Chricious

you charge a monthly fee of 2-5$. For the monthly revenue model you could also go freemium and offer a free basic version and a pay plan full version.

No.

@Chricious

• For you. You don’t loose more time spending in producing, selling and shipping the modules. You have more time an capacities to spend on your core business, which is arguably the programming, updating, running the software part and offering a great service. Last but not least you can make more money out of it and scale faster and easier since you can charge the same price for just the app, what you are charging now for the module.

Software isn’t hard to emulate. Hardware is and whilst subscription service is nice in theory, there are many that abhor it. For software to get to the point of being hardware “secure” takes a lot of work. Don’t they already have their hardware supplier figured out too?

@Chricious

• For Jeff. Jeff would be able to offer a killer feature to his product. It would boost sells instantly.

True but I don’t see why subscription is necessary for Jeff to integrate with unless you’re referring to built in/soldered of which I’m not a fan. Modularity is better.

@Chricious

For the community. We would get a better and easier integration of the module and since Jeff would be able to produce the modules way cheaper than you, we could safe some money on it, since we wouldn’t need to pay extra shipping costs, to get the module. In fact nobody would need to pay any shipping costs anymore, besides for the actual NeoBox.

Would it be easier integration though? It seems like it would just be buying from Jeff instead (which isn’t bad but I don’t really see a benefit?)

@Skatardude10

but is it just software that would stop someone from using the basic app or would some hardware or software checks need to be implemented to ensure this one time fee? Say they get two neoboxes with it built in, is it $80 I’d assume for both? just brainstorming…

Exactly, possibly too much complexity. The existing model works right?

[pjotr47]

I hate at this moment buying expensive metr modules for more then 1 board. I would be more then happy to pay 1time 50 euro for the app and 5-10euro/module.

But not like now €40-50 for each module. I can understand why it cost that much because off the software. But when we have more then one board. Why pay again the same software fee…

Better create the app with slots. Were you can link each module you have to your account. Maybe with limited slots etc. Same like a antivirus/YouTube premium/Spotify/Netflix etc. You pays for 1 device more then for for each device if you take a 5devices pack at example.

I think this is easy applicable on this moment. Start selling the modules for 5-10euro. And give each guy who bought a module for 40-50 euro a lifetime free slot.

[Chricious]

@annihil8ted

Agreed. Coupling the two is wasteful and more points of failure as a whole or degraded performance. Modularity is better. You don’t buy an entirely new car just because the radio is broken.

No, it’s more like you get with every new car a radio and you say you don’t want to get a radio in your car. You want to buy an aftermarket radio in each new car you buy.

@xsynatic

But thats an unnecessary amount of costly hardware laying around. If i have 3 dead neoboxes and 2 working ones i have 5 metr modules total. Just give me one that is interchangeable with all neoboxes and thats everything i need.

I don’t know about the costs of the module, but I think I could be about 5$ for Jeff. I that is your point you cold argue to make all parts modular in a VESC and if something brakes you can just buy a new part and solder it together. Makes no sense for. I would like to have an all in one product and not worry about anything. Me as an customer also don’t want to solder anything. I want an easy and convinced. If something brakes I either use my warranty, or I buy new. That’s how 99.9% of behave. Sure the DIY scene is a little different. But thinking from a global perspective, this is how things work.

And If you just have one module to work with all VESCs you are never able to use simulations more boards. One Metr per board, makes total sense.

[murdomeek]

@pjotr47

But not like now €40-50 for each module. I can understand why it cost that much because off the software. But when we have more then one board. Why pay again the same software fee…

Do you use multiple computers? Why pay for more than one windows licensing fee…

You are free to swap out the meter module between boards each ride.