Lets have a chat about bearings and how they're specified

Yeah yeah, I know there’s a similar thread out there. But I have some ideas that I’d like to put into its own thread. This about to get ranty.

Firstly, my conclusion is that ABEC rating is nearly meaningless to us. Note that an ABEC-1 rating indicates a deviation of 10 microns across a 20mm span.

I’ve seen a lot of buzz words thrown out there, ABEC rating, skate rating, contact vs non contact seals… the list goes on. What I’m most interested in is the clearance rating of bearings, which I haven’t seen discussed before here.

Let’s compare the ABEC rating system to the Clearance Rating system.

The clearance rating system is exactly what it sounds like, it’s the overall slop in the system. Generally, there is one value attributed to deep groove ball bearings, and that’s the amount of gap remaining on one side when the inner race is loaded to one side. (there is additionally a value for axial loads, but that is also dependant on specific bearing geometry.)

The scale ranges from C2, CN, C3, C3 and C5.

CN is considered a nominal bearing. Chances are most generic NSK bearings will fit this spec if not otherwise specified.

For a 8mm bore bearing, CN values range from 2 to 13 micrometers. For reference, an abec-3 rating indicates a dimensional accuracy of -8 microns. Interestingly, the ABEC scale doesn’t denote what the nominal value should be, assuming that there is already an included clearance value for said bearing.

Basically, what I’m trying to get at is that the ABEC scale is a rating of how close a bearing is to spec, but it doesn’t denote what that spec actually is! The clerance rating denotes specifically denotes what the accaptable range is for each spec.

Now onto the meat of what I am interested in talking about. The skate bearings we use seem incredibly sloppy, as if the clearance rating is quite high. That’s not necessarily a bad thing, because a higher amount of slop in the system means the bearings can take additional impact and shock loads. However, I’m unsure of how it affects axial loads. Nearly every skate bearing we see has non-contact rubber seals. This means that it’s entirely possible for dust and gunk to get inside the bearings (which we know happens).

Is the high clearance rating specifically to address that issue of foreign debris inside the bearing? Having clearance prevents the bearings from locking up. I believe that it would be a BAD idea to use a low clearance bearing with non-contact seals.

So what about contact seals? Should the bearings have high clearance? Can skateboarding even be defined as “high impact” when we’re using soft urethane wheels, sometimes pnuematic? For reference, the document I’ve been reading uses railroad wheels as an example of high impact, specifically because it’s metal on metal with no give.

What’s even more interesting is that bearings that are press-fit into features are supposed to have MORE clearance, and that bearings that are loose in their housings or shaft generally have NO clearance (A C2 rating, 0 - 7 microns of radial clearance for an 8mm bearing)

In my mind, a proper skate bearing would have full rubber seals and a C2 rating due to lack of dust ingress and loose fits inside wheels and on our shafts. That said, things may change when using precision shoulder bolts, or bearing spacers so you can lock down the inner race location.

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I forgot to mention, this is an incredibly useful document where I first found out about clearance ratings: https://www.ntnglobal.com/en/products/catalog/pdf/2202E_a08.pdf

This is also a great resource for understanding this https://www.machinedesign.com/motors-drives/article/21834658/understanding-bearing-internal-clearance

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This topic is underrated, thanks for the clear infos!

Interesting, I wonder if the Clearance is specified on consumer grade bearings. Will look at specsheets.

@spade O Lord of Silicon Nitride bearings!

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General Notes learnt and taken on this bearing journey :

Silicon Nitride Si3N4 balls are great - but generally for extremely high speeds, and extreme heat generating motors. Situational as steel balls are good enough for normal eSK8 applications.

Race Cage
The most important trait is the race cage system and material. Avoid plastic race cages (very hard to do), especially for motor applications. Plastic race cages will produce the most drag. Metal race cages are the way to go. Coo-space bearings are cage-less, but at the moment out of reach of most esk8 folks - reserved only for the people who only want the very best. I guess 2 motor bearings from Coo-space won’t be too costly though.

Bearing seals
Metal bearing shields “ZZ” code are kind of a compromise, pretty much a bad seal - they allow dirt to get in. a secondary protection fender or an internal application away from dirt is the best application for ZZ bearings.

Rubber seals “2RS” are pretty much the norm - however they are all made differently. Japanese ones have the best seals from dirt because of the subtle but effective way the lips overlap with the bearing, forcing a tighter lock-in that generic China ones. The better the seal, the longer the bearing will last.

NTN is pretty much the best bearing standard money can buy. Make sure they are not fake. Fake bearings are everywhere - NSK is the most heavily faked bearing brand.

NTN does have Silicon Nitride bearings - I do not know the cost…

thanks to @moon for the link to the crazy good bearing guy Hambini
thanks to @hummieee for the link to coo-space


anyone have any idea what the race cage material is for Zealous bearings?


gotta live up to my new title
tyrone

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I didn’t see that last one coming :rofl: ok you’re hired

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In response to your question, there is a lot of crazy impact loads that come with urethane hitting rough roads and ultimately impacting the wear on the bearing… i think it’s worse than the wheels on a bike. Less so for pnuemies. Because there is no shock absorption apart from the deck’s flex. It ends up largely distributed across the bearings. I’m not familiar with the clearance ratings… but dont expect generic china made ones to have any. Those integrated spacer ones like zealous are much better in terms of clearances.

From my experience, the wheels themselves as a whole play a greater part in free rolling distance and frictional losses than bearings - when all bearing used are equal for comparison.

My question is if we should be using bigger bearings and wider spread between bearings. Lets say something like 10x26x8 bearing (to keep core small) with 20mm spacer between for street wheels and 10x30x9 bearings for AT Tires. The bigger the bearings the lesser chance of catastrophic failure, right. Even standard quality bearings should outlast smaller, higher quality bearings, or am I incorrect in that assumption.

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That would be the correct assumption. All things being equal, greater internal surface area leads to longer lifetime.

I’ve been wanting to try out different kinds for a while now, but unfortunately the ecosystem is so established there’s no wheels with differently sized cores.

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Zealous bearings have plastic cages, but it’s a different kind of material than bones reds.

I’m still convinced that skateboarding is not high impact. It certainly has high loads but it doesn’t seem like urethane is even capable of delivering shock loads.

It seems like to me the only reason skate bearings have high clearance is because of crappy tolerances around the bearing (axles, wheels, spacers etc). It’s worth trying out high precision, low clearance, bearings with a precision shoulder bolt solution. That’s what I’m working on right now.

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Try doing ollies without high impact or jumping from height off a flight of stairs…

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idk man, jumps and such doesn’t necessarily equate to high shock. These bearings are rated to such high forces, I’d be surprised if you could ever register a reading above nominal static load rating even during impulse forces. The ones I’m looking at now are rated to 315 lbs static and 755 lbs dynamic load. Even if you impact one wheel, you’d still be splitting forces between two bearings. I just can’t imagine our bearings are failing (or would be failing) due to high forces, and not instead due to poor alignment and poor dust protection.

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It’s both, but yes you’re right - more due to dirt / dust / water ingress destroying the races… steel balls are pretty tough.

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700 lbs impact force is like nothing. There will be some intense shock loading probably in the range of 10-20x rider weight when you impact bumps divots etc. I’ve done a lot of simulation of impact loading cushioned materials for robotics applications. Several thousand pounds impulse force is a very mild impact. At 30mph when urethane wheels hit a larger gap the bearings will see some surprisingly high shock loads I think.

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That’d be like 4000+lbs force from a heavy rider on a bad day