Really good info there, all I know is based off feel and bro science lol
thought the baseplates u have go with calibers
oh no i got 3d servias adjustable baseplates. Caliber doesnt even make adjustables if i remember correctly.
Right, I was saying theoretically you could do drifting like RWD cars on a board, in which case, it would be putting a lot of strain on the components
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stress on the electronics or like trucks and wheels ?
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All of the above, youâre basically using max amps to spin out the wheels. Tons of axial forces from the sliding movement, weird sideways vectors from turning⌠You get the idea?
Iâve done it on dirt before and overheated my ESC in like 10 mins doing donuts
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ah, I am not spinning the wheel when sliding. Just getting to speed and coasting when sliding
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Yeah thatâs more like traditional longboard sliding
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Was gonna put this on the @FastBoard thread but decided it would be better put here.
To Put in some race perspective here. There are many purpose built boards that perform well at specific functions.
In SHORT TRACK (sub 30mph)
- Grip is King, you are only as good as your contact patch will allow you to be.
- The deck setup. What performs best has a front binding with a deck line just above the axel line.
(With grip comes lateral Gâ, With a top mount Lateral G increases the force required to maintain input tilt while reducing turn control.) Some G âpushbackâ is good.
3)Wide or Narrow most truck designs can do well here. Channel, DKP, TKP, RKP are capable.
Depending on the track, tuning out rear truck angle will help turn exit stability.
In LONG TRACK, uphill (30+mph)
- Grip is King
- A precision Truck is a Must have.
Tire tread center to deck edge is a good approximate width. Reduce rear steer to a minimum that the sharpest turn on course will allow.
3)The deck setup follows close behind. Increased length helps with control. Increased length decreases the boards tendency to Dart or Hunt on un-smooth or transitioning surface while at speed. We run a 42"wheel base for the example.
The above drop vs G as described above still applies.
Couple of things to take to the bank.
âSliding is Slow.â Gravity-Thane required a very large tool box of skill and talent to properly control. With Powered Thanes limited grip add accel and deceleration dynamics to lateral control adding to the difficulty.
Powered DH boards on Thane have been tried and tested and raced by pro level riders. They get smoked in short,long and up-hill by Iâll prepared boards with good grip.
While having skills in DH is an asset and make the transition to powered racing easy. It is not necessary. I personally know great riders from both, who Race and win on powered boards.
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Truth, I guess the question is how far apart do you want electric and downhill skating to be. Because both of these niches could help each other the same way stand up piggy backed on luge events. Would be amazing to see the same riders going down the hill with gravity also race up it with electricity. Brought my eboard to a downhill event this weekend and a lot of people were interested, biggest complaints was price and their irrational hate for electric boards that I use to also have.
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On the US west coast E-Boards have had a presence, piggy backing on DH events since 2018. They have been IDF timed at Mary Hill and just had their 3rd year running Barrett Junction.
Over all the reception from the DH community has been very open and very positive. At BJ we had an all uphill race with all DH riders on E-Boards. Good times on the horizon.
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I appreciate your experience and opinion, @MoeStooge.
What I have learnt so far:
As you say powered downhill boards are ill suited to short tracks, precision trucks with low angle plates are not suitable for short tracks as they simply do not have a suitable turning circle and those tracks are fun but once youâve gone fast, youâre addicted.
Yes itâs adds lateral control difficulty, almost all electric boarders stand up and widen their stance to aid in this stability, sure this works but increases your air resistance and raises your centre of gravity which is harder to control in corners vs crouched or in tuck with a low CoG. Truth is your not going to be able to stand up like this above 90 kmph let alone shoulder a corner. Air resistance is stupid high and CoG is too high at those speeds.
You going to stay âhow the fuck do you deal with all the torque crouched down? How do you fix this?â
Enter the âjesusâ handle that mounts to the front of the board directly above the front truck, I use this for stability when accelerating in tuck, it can be used for powered toeside sliding too, this is the way forward. Means lower air resistance in tuck and lower CoG for stability in corners whilst being able to deal with the massive torque and shock loads from the motors whilst crouched down. Also means you can gansta lean in tuck whilst on the gas and oh boy can I tell you how good that feels!
Soft urethane race wheels have a metric shit tonne of grip when used on the right surfaces, they rival V8 supercar levels of grip out of the box when used by pro riders at Bathurst hear in AUS. They do also behave just like rubber tires in that they wont tolerate too high a mix of longitudinal grip (forwards backwards) and lateral grip (sideways), but thatâs part of learning to race and learning where the limit of grip is. Urethane is also good because you can keep the wheels small and they stayed tucked under your board, small is good for DD. Thing is urethane wheels only like smooth roads and the grippy mould release surface doesnât last long. I agree soft grippy rubber would be better and my next focus is just that.
Riding stance/style influences the type of board you should ride, if your standing up with a wide stance, you have all your weight on the rear truck, your board will probably be long, dropped with wide trucks for added stability.
If your crouched down in tuck you want a completely different board that will handle completely differently.
DH powered thane boards get smoked because theyâre being ridden the wrong way or on tracks not suited to their use, high powered thane boards will toast all competition on big open long smooth sweeping race tracks but all this stuff is new and who knows what the future holds but once this Corona thing is beat we can get into it.
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Been way down this Rabbit hole at the track with Jeremiah from Ollin board. Jeremiah is possibly one of the smartest guys on the planet to touch a skateboard. He solved many of the initial esc design problems using vesc tech. His design, fit and finish was second to none. The thing I liked most about Ollin was his gonna prove you wrong at all cost mind set. Problem was Jeremiah had the same problem as @FastBoard. He couldnât let go of tradition. I Wish Jeremiah was still involved in racing. He was awesome at what he did.
Ollin came to Barrett 19"armed with IDF #3 in the world Daniel Engel and 90mph clubman Tim Del and himself. At the top there wasnât an Ollin board rider in site. They were all Severely gapped by lesser quality riders on rubber.
Ollin came back with bigger motors and these beautiful hand build gear drives and a longer deck. He put some impressive work in these without any real progress. Limiting factor was grip.
Hoyt St. Now these guys followed suit with Sam Sparkowich and Jonner Steck. Couple of great riders on Thane. AWD and purpose built for racing. All severely gapped at Bakersfield Mary Hill and Derby Days by lesser quality riders on rubber. Hoyt St. is working on a pnumatic tire setup that should put them in the running. Really glad Hoyt keeps coming back, they are determined.
To me what @fastboard is describing is a remake of a bad movie.
We are still in the beginning of esk8 Racing. There is a lot to be learned and discovered. Performance is learned and decided in competition. Hope to see more manufacturer involvement and presence this year.
As for the Jesus Handle. 90mph club member Max Capps was the first to implement the Jesus Handle on an E-Board. (I still think it makes it a scooter)
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@MoeStooge thanks for the write up really interesting seeing how this works
at what point does grip no longer become the limiting factor? on your stretched rubber wheels on a high power board whats gonna be the next issue?
also would you explain the amount of difference having a lower ride height would make? is top mount or drop through better for shear speed?
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There is no arguing that, if Tim Del & Daniel Engel got gapped at Mayhill then yeah there is no other rider that can push the limits of thane any more than them. Annnnd just like that I am back on the 3link stooge hype train lol
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Barrett Junction was where Del & Engel were Uphill racing with Ollin. Barrettsâ surface is one of the most messed up and challenging surfaces in DH.
I can see a powered board thane class happening. Taking away grip would definitely seperate the men from the boys.
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As we continue to race and develop I expect things to evolve. What works great today will be improved on by someone else.
Our tire selection is pretty damn shoddy. At this point a better tire can do nothing but help.
Balanced front to rear Grip is the key to maximizing turn speed. A nice flat contact patch, speed rating and durometer options is what is needed. A smaller version of what kart racing offers would be IT.
Top mount vs drop; Quick answer for sheer speed is Either/Or. Seems more of preference than one being better than the other. Things like board length and truck setup play a big factor for making straight up speed with stability.
On high grip pnumatic ,setup deck height plays a big factor in turn âGâ pushback.
Meaning deck above pivot center Lateral G increases tilt input force required to hold the turn.
Further away from pivot center Lat-G pushback increases.
Deck below pivot center lateral G creates a âHammockâ effect. Meaning lateral G has a negative pushback effect.
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is the tires the issue or the hubs? in theory would getting a small batch of go kart tires made at 6 inch fix this issue?
so just to make sure i understand. on a dropdown deck the point where your feet stand (the main piece) should be level with the bushing seat of the truck? that creates as perfect as possible turning effect as we can?
as of now that is not the case with my board and im running it around an inch higher then the pivot point. def gonna try lowering it now.
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Hahaha alright what the fuck would I know right?
Some lateral G pushback IMO is good.
We run approximate 1.25 to 1.5" deck height above pivot center with the links⌠Setup should be something you experiment with and dial to what is good for you.
Understanding that the closer you move the deck line to pivot center = less lateral G pushback. Your experience tuning this thought will lead you to the correct deck line height for you.
No drop guys with high grip will turn fine at low speeds but when high lateral force is introduced struggle In turn. They will chase bushings to cure this when dialing the drop is whatâs needed.
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