I don’t want you guys to think I am ignoring this subject because I am absolutely not, I just feel like anything I say now will detract from the objective. I am going to sit back and watch what happens. Good job @BillGordon& @Dareno.
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I think new, unproved vendors shouldn’t be allowed to do pre orders and group buys until proven somewhat trustworthy.
They should have to have sold/sent-for-review their goods to enough reliable testers in the community that they can be vowed for.
Community testers badge would be a great differentiation.
All the scum vendors delivered decent shit in the beginning. At least they wouldn’t be able to turn a quick profit on pre orders and buy ins from members naivete.
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I disagree with this.
This is a DIY community. the goals here should be focused around helping bring new ideas to the front and give those new “vendors” an opportunity to prove them selves.
many of our greatest parts makers started in the diy community with “ive got this great idea . . . but i need to make this many and heres how much it would cost, anyone in?”
Other users are aware its a gamble and that they are taking a chance on a new guy but everyone has to start somewhere. If your a DIY guy designing parts from your garage then often it requires some investment from a preorder or group buy to get your ideas off the ground.
People should be aware that this is a risk but i think discouraging this is shortsighted and will end up hurting the DIY scene further down the line.
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we already have a prohibition on users with trust level <3 organizing group buys
i’m a little confused why the rule doesn’t apply to pre-orders, or why the rule can be easily circumvented by directing buyers to complete the transaction off-site
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There are two competing priorities here. Noobs like me count on recommendations they read here. There is no where else to find that kind of in depth information. The other priority is vendors use it as a free advertising medium. Nothing wrong with that, it is a good business practice. The question is how to allow the advertising while protecting the noobs. Esk8 is a new product line filled with startups. Vendors will come and go. Estimates are 9 out of 10 startups fail. When they do fail, consumers get hurt. It takes a certain type of personality to wager their future on a startup. Many, if not most, will start another company or move to another startup when the last one fails.
Some sort of certification that verifies people using the site to advertise are who they say they are seems to be the only way to protect the noobs, the people that will form the future of this site. The good vendors aren’t going to pass up free advertising for the sake of hiding their identity. The ones with a history of shady business practices just might. If not, they will still have to reap what they have sown.
On a related topic, for the love of Skatan, understand that if you pay for a pre-order you are allowing someone else to gamble with your money. If the gamble pays off, they win big and you get what you paid for, if the gamble loses you lose your money.
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I think you can trust that most of the more experienced users here generally monitor most threads and chime in where necessary.
I don’t believe there needs to be any sort of official recommendation at all, and it is up to the due diligence of the noob to read, research and take others opinions as they see fit.
It is not the job of admins/moderators to quality control vendors products or practices in my opinion. It is their job however to step in and take action if it is discovered that there are shady practices at play.
I think that already our current mod team (and @DerelictRobot bless his soul) have gone above and beyond to bring information forward for potential customers to do as they please with.
Its not fair to expect that these guys will take it upon themselves to tell you what to buy or who to buy it from.
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This 
- thanks now I dont have to write it.
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I didn’t say they should recommend who to buy from. That happens organically. I suggested they should verify the identity of anyone using the site to advertise their products. We don’t have paid advertising. We paid for this site. If the advertiser was paying they would have to identify themselves. Why not here?
What advantage is there to allow free advertising from anonymous sources?
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The ID process I proposed was not outlandish and it certainly isn’t illegal considering how much of the same data is available on LinkedIn. This type of ID verification happens in many internet enterprises including Reddit AMAs, Kickstarter campaigns, etc.
My personal feeling is that for a company to be able to sell here they should make the company and representative info available publicly. A company address, phone number, full name, email address and photo ID verification.
When you rent a car they do the same thing. All of that info and more is available for most companies world wide via 30 seconds spent on google. Why is esk8 any different? The short answer is its not.
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Sorry but I disagree. It is again up to your due diligence who you choose to buy from and how you pay in order to protect yourself.
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Some people in here have known my feelings on Jeff since 2019.
I however disagree with the mods of this forum taking it upon themselves to uncover the truth on any vendor.
The forum and its mods should not and must not be held accountable for any transaction taking place herein.
They should not have to bear the burden or have the power to bring down a seller for whatever reason.
However, mods are also members of this community and if any information is made available to them causing concern on the legitimacy of a seller then this is up to them to be made public and for other members of this forum to decide what to do with this information. After presenting the facts the matter should end there and people should decide what to do with them.
TLDR , do not expect other people to make the decision for you. You and you alone are responsible for your actions and if you are so stupid to ignore all the signs, you deserve to be scammed.
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I hear what you are saying here, but what about in the situation like @ducktaperules outlined above? There are many situations where the ‘vendor’ isnt a company at all, just a dude making shit out of his garage.
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@glyphiks
Fuck, my post looks like an exact copy of yours.
Would you believe I never read it before posting mine 
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You know what they say about great minds brother
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No matter what direction we all decide on, there will be a tough balancing act of trying to avoid scams without stifling innovation.
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This i think is part of the growing pains of any community.
I think this is also an indication that however shitty this situation turned out, you guys are helping this community move in the right direction as a whole.
Kudos
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That’s a blanket judgement with the benefit of context or history. If I didn’t know you, and know that you have no filter, I might be offended 
.
I agree, This isn’t an issue of accountability, or shouldn’t be. This is an issue of making all of the available information available for everyone. When have secrets being kept from you done you any good, that’s the question I would ask.
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Here’s a US Business Law fact for you. If a person is selling something they made or purchased for resale, then they are a business. They might not be a licensed business or corporate entity, but they are still a business. The same rules should apply to them as well.
I’ve never hidden my physical address, phone number or email from anyone on the forums. I’ve don a single group buy 2 or 3 years ago, that’s sum of “business” I’ve done on the forums.
I have sold some stuff that I no longer needed, is that line of divergence between user and vendor that you are looking for?
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Fair call, and understood. I don’t think that this is an unreasonable requirement.
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The point I am trying to make is simple.
You can act as an individual, not as a representative of this forum when such information falls upon you.
You may decide to release such information or not.
I do not expect from you or anyone else to make it public. It is your decision, as an individual what to do with it.
On the other matter, let me put it another way and please do not take this as directed at you (or anyone else in particular) because it is not.
I do not know all the business relationships people in this forum have nor do I expect to know all. Some are vendors and have made this information available, others have undisclosed relationships with vendors.
There may be information I am not supposed to know that is not due to some malice intent.
Eg you may have information on some new esc that is going to come out. If you release that information you do me good because I can wait and get the newer better model but you may harm the manufacturer that is trying to clear his stock. It is a grey area.
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