Battery pack manufacturing EUROPE - Feedback Required!

Hi Guys,

I am considering staring to build packs for the community within Europe.

DO you think there is a need for this kind of service here for shipment within the EU?

Let me know.

Thanks

H

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For this crowd, it would largely depend on the quality of your work. Got any photos?

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Still waiting to get all the equipment to arrive. Some delays in shipping and stock. But as soon as I have all the workspace geared up correctly, ill post some pictures.

where u from?

Yes. Although we have some good builders here, they are often busy with work or school and cannot fulfill the entire EU market demand.

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Operation will be from Portugal

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Just to add,

My initial idea is to provide pre-cell testing / matching ( capacity, IR, Discharge ) on all packs built, which is something I don’t know if current pack builders are going into this depth of detail. Maybe they are…

I have done some testing to strengthen the current passthrough throughout the whole pack, with some interesting results, although It would benefit higher current draw situations only 80A+

Finally, pricing would be a tad more agreeable than what the market has to offer currently.

Thanks guys.

H

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Did you already build esk8 packs? Because if you are waiting on equipment to build packs it makes me feel you’ve never made one, then I would advise maybe don’t try to sell them straight away and ride them? let them be abused by other people?
Don’t get me wrong but you joined like 23h ago and you don’t have pictures until equipement arrives ( personnally I have tons of pictures on my phone of products at work we don’t sell yet) just feels a bit weird :wink:

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Seems kind of rude to the well established builders lol it’s expensive because it’s super time consuming and is a high-skill task.

Building a esk8 worthy battery is one of the biggest challenges in the industry, at least, doing it well enough to say you’re “good”

I didn’t sell any packs until I’d built 5 of my own, I recommend you at least build some for yourself first and ride them, as well as provide detailed pictures of your methods and work. Without that, you’ll never sell a pack on this forum

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@Eratrace it will be a business from scratch. I do intend to fully test the products until I am ready to start selling them . It was just an initial question/reaction from the community I was looking for at this point. Would like to put my 25+ years experience in the field ( electronics/manufacturing ) to fulfill an eventual market requirement/need, thus my initial question.

As far as the hardware ( cells, welders, cell testers, etc ) they should be arriving in the next few weeks.

IMO building packs is no rocket science; the structural flex, cell quality/pairing, welding and packaging is I would say the top key points to abide by. And finally, and most importantly, a fair pricing model.

Will be EU business only due to high shipping costs outside EU.

Thats my 2 cents.

Regards,

H

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@ShutterShock Did not want to come across as being rude, or disrespectful in any way. I guess if you build packs to make ends meet then clearly you should make as much profit as possible.

On the other hand, the difference between high quality packs and low quality packs is not in the cost or time, its in the business mindset.

Some superb examples of great packs sold all around, dont get me wrong, and I guess each one to his own in this. There is room for everyone to succeed with their own products, at whichever price-point or quality level it may be.

H

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People mention that it is a high skill task since it really is for anyone without the needed background knowledge or experience. However, you don’t even need 25 years experience for it to become easier.

I get what you mean since I also never really looked at esk8 batteries as all that complicated thanks to my education. It would still take time to make a good pack and I’d likely be slower than a builder who has figured out how to optimize each step to save time. There is no way to get around that

I do have to disagree here though. A lower quality pack will just not last as long whether that is due to poor construction, or by using lower quality cells. With the time it takes to make one battery, your better off not cutting corners since it can impact the pack quality a ton and yet might only slightly increase your profits. (plus if it happens several times you’ll no longer have people from on here who are willing to buy from you)

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@ApproachCautiously The 25 years was not meant as a benchmark, but as a strength to identify weaknesses or failure points in the product, as well as carving the optimal process model for building the product. Cell quality is clearly key no doubt about that.

Regrading the quality of the build; maybe I was not clear. The difference between a poor and good quality build ( considering the to go cells everybody has figured out by now… ) is the way you manufacture the pack ( correct welds, correct links between the groups, pre matching/testing cells ), and that, if the process is in place does not take much more time. Its embedded in the manufacture. Maybe I did not make myself clear…

Regards,

H

Nah, it’s just wildly uneducated since he hasn’t built anything yet.

Easy to say now. Many have come and gone with build batteries. It might not be rocket science, but it’s certainly not easy either.

This is a funny one… Because if you actually want these capabilities you have to shell out a massive amount of cash to get accurate and reliable equipment capable of performing these tests, some of which are also very time consuming to operate if you didn’t spend a load of money on automated systems. (Which would be a respectably crazy entry to the scene if I’m honest) either way, this equipment or time cost is going to lead to much more expensive battery packs…

I’m not going say this thread makes you look bad or there’s a reason you shouldn’t built packs. But as someone who knows a thing or two, it’s very obvious you’re making these assessments and some assumptions with no experience. You will learn a lot as to how this market works as you venture down this path.

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Please give credit where it’s due.

@Battery_Mooch figured it out, and continues to do so first. Everyone else just confirms his findings.

If you intend on making a business in PEV batteries, you should contribute to his Patreon, as all the commonly used and widely confirmed data on cell choice, comes from his testing and publications.

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I’m also from Portugal, Braga. De que cidade és?

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Yes I think there is a great need for this service in the EU. I am regularly asked if I can build a pack to folks. But I have made a principle decision not to build packs for others than my self.

First it is extremely time consuming (for me at least) and I dont even want to say out loud what I want in return financial for my time spend. I am pretty sure no one will pay :slight_smile:

Second… I could not bear if a pack I build went in to flames. No matter who’s fault not was. That risk I am not ready to take.

So if you can come up with a model where you build quality packs to less than currently on the market now. You will get customers - I think.

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Also, FIY but you probably know that since you have 25+ years experience, I just went doing pre-engineering tests for compliance on one of our devices at work (and I’m still trying to figure everything out). You pretty much have to be certain to comply with regulations, this includes CEM on the BMS (I would’nt trust the tests done in China, anyway if your the importer your the one liable for it), if you make packs that are more than 70VDC then you are in the low voltage directives and dangerous voltages, pretty much everything about it will make your life a nightmare.
If you intergrate a bluetooth bms you have to comply with the RED directive for the whole product (which makes any pack starting from 0V needing to comply with the LVD, tho with a lot that would be non applicable), that means you have to comply with the low voltage directive even for packs under 70VDC.

It’s a bit difficult to know were to place such a product in the f*cktons of directives we have in europe so I might be wrong on the whole thing :wink:

Just a warning since you want to do this as an official business and not as an individual, the repercussions won’t be the same if anything happens to one of your packs

@A13XR3 as well as his honor, Dr. @mariocontino both have a great deal of experience building batteries for electric boards. I’d argue they’re some of the most experienced people in the world on such a niche subject and it would serve you well to take their word. I don’t believe anybody is telling you not to build packs, however we have incredibly high standards around here for a very good reason. The builders around here stick around because of immaculate attention to detail, transparency about current and previous packs, and a reputation of very robust, well made packs.

If your intention is primarily profit, I would turn back now. Nobody is getting rich selling PEV batteries. The majority of the builders here could make a great deal more money taking their skills somewhere else or diversifying their skillset and selling packs to a larger market (not something anybody can really admit in a graceful way) but the driving factor in quality battery builders is almost entirely based on passion, their passion for the hobby, their desire to refine their craftsmanship, and most importantly, their desire to keep large pev batteries safe.

I do wish you luck and hope you can eventually become one of the forums trusted builders but it’s important that you know that will take a lot of work.

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Building batteries is not easy, it’s incredibly time-consuming even with the high-quality equipment, especially if you are building one-off pieces, as you don’t have the materials already prepared, like templates for nickel, soldered wires, fish paper etc, cells glued together etc, and then to make it esthetically really nice, after you have made all the insulation stuff is 5x tougher than actually getting all the welds solid and everything lined up correctly, I’m honestly amazed how some guys especially from the US like @DuckBatterySystems and others he just comes on top of my mind menage to make the welds so clean, wires so straight, and kapton tape so neat.

The market in the EU has decreased a lot, from my experience, because I remember getting 2-3 messages each day to make a battery, and now it’s not even a fraction of that.
I also tried getting in to ebikes, etc but the market is even smaller, and people there often just buy prebuilts, as it makes sense money wise.

Also, the amount of money needed to justify working on a battery to make it perfect in every way is not what people in the EU are willing to pay, so that’s one of the reasons I’m keeping the battery building to a minimum and only doing some fun builds like a 16s9p for a guy on here.

Either change your mindset, learn from the people on here and take their advice, and don’t act like you know everything because one thing is reading about building batteries, and another is being on here for 5 years and actually building a 100+ or just quit before wasting money and time

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