4WD VS 2WD question..

DIY Builds
#1

So I got $2200 to blow, or $1500 and $700 to buy a new phone.

I’d build everything, including battery.

First build. Beginner skateboarder.

I want torque more than speed. I’m fine at around 25mph max I think.

I’m currently entertaining these options using 12s6p 42a molicell and unity or Ubox.

1) 2wd 72:15 belt drive 6" AT pneumatics 170kv 6396 65-80a 4550w maytech motors

Using 3dvisas calc I get: 48.7nm torque at the drive train, 17ml range, 24mph avg. speed.

I can get a 60t wheel pulley aswell and get 29mph and 40nm torque, if I need more speed.

2) 2wd 60:15 belt drive 6" AT pneumatics 140kv 6374 flipsky motors

Using 3dvisas calc I get: 38nm torque at the drive train, 17ml range, 24mph avg. speed.

I can get a 46t wheel pulley aswell and get 31mph and 29nm torque, if I need more speed.

3) 4wd 60:15 belt drive 6" AT pneumatics 140kv 6354 flipsky motors 2450W 65A max

Using 3dvisas calc I get: 53nm torque at the drive train, 8.5ml range, 24mph avg. speed.

Dropping the gear ratio I can get more speed again.

The range is halfed, but will it really be halfed? I would think 4 motors taking the load, would result in less amp draw per motor, so the range would be aprox the same.

and 4) 2wd 135:15 belt drive 8" AT pneumatics 230kv 56123 inrunner SSR motors 95A 9000-15000W max but would run at max 5400W, I would use 16s6p in this specific case with the Ubox.

Using 3dvisas calc I get: 63nm torque at the drive train, 18.8ml range, 29.9mph avg. speed.

Which setup is best in your opinion and why?

Here are my thoughts on each setup:

1st setup: I like the idea of 6396 maytech motors. I have read the motors are the best. Or the TB motors, they go hand in hand. It checks all the boxes in terms of torque and speed configuration it seems.

2nd setup: Cheaper that 1st to make. I am not so comfortable with flipsky stuff from what I’ve read. However on paper, it seems great. Just a little less power than 1st setup, but also could up the torque with a 72t. But I feel like I will be limited to no more than 6" wheels as more than that I feel could be lack of power.

3rd setup would be kind of expensive, more components, more things that could go wrong. But it would have 4 wheel traction which could be fun. Get more torque than 1st and 2nd setup, but with lower apparent range. (still not sure the range would go down this much?) 4 motors just looks cool too.

The 4th setup,I could at some point, build an electric surfboard using the motors. However, it may not happen for a few years so there may be better options then. Also, the gear ratio is a bit tough. It’s my first build, not sure I can handle making it. I was thinking I can 3d print the 135t for the 8" wheels, and it could work.

Oh yeah the battery pack would be modular 4 packs of 4s6p. That way I can make 12s6p or 16s6p.

If there are better options besides the ones I mentioned let me know. I’d love to hear some fresh ideas I am not aware of.

Thanks

4 Likes
#2

Both good choices.

4 Likes
#3

You gonna need some more monies dude…

13 Likes
#4

If it’s your first board I would go for a more standard setup. 4wd is really only necessary if you want to race or something. Especially if you want to gear it to only go 25mph a standard 6374 setup is already very good.

Maybe you could try out some other diy boards. Even not super high end stuff can be very powerful.

I would go with a xenith or makerX and 6374 with a belt drive.

3 Likes
#5

Without knowing your exact needs it’s hard to explain why you would / wouldn’t need 4WD, but I will say that a powerful 2WD build will take you months to master (even for an experienced skater it takes a while to get used to powerful electric skateboards). Enjoy it for a year and then decide if you really need the extra power that 4WD gives. Will also be cheaper :slight_smile:

As for motors: Some people are running Maytech’s 6396 motors fine, but many people report overheating issues. Personally I think it depends on the gearing / motor settings people are using, but why take the risk when other motors will do you just fine? Flipsky’s new battle hardened motors are probably alright, although Maytech 6374 are probably the best quality. Those inrunners you linked also might be good, but not that many people are using them, so it might be best to keep it simple for your first build.

Speaking of keeping things simple: without knowing how deep into this hobby you will go, I suggest buying a battery pack from a trusted builder that know what they are doing. Battery’s are dangerous stuff and it takes a lot of time and money in tools and resources to start building packs yourself. It’s also the least fun part of a build, so yeah :sweat_smile:

Anyway, tell us about yourself: where you plan to ride, what type of board you are building, then we can give you better recommendations :slight_smile:

9 Likes
#6

Also, in case you missed it, I HIGHLY suggest following this order when picking parts for a build:

That way you minimize the chance of the build failing due to incompatible / impossible to source parts :slight_smile:

13 Likes
#7

I don’t know nobody in the San Diego area. I want to grow into it even if it’s too powerful, one can never have too much power

Any watercooled VESCs that you would know of? Maybe I could use them for the surfboard as well. The maker looks interesting. What would set that apart from the xenith if it’s the same price?

#8

helmet is the 1st narrowing criteria? That’s odd :rofl:

I forgot to mention I got a deck and enclosure already.

No flex, but the 4 pack would allow for that anyway.

ESCs if they are rated for 100a cont. 200a max. it would be good. If they have a watercooling option even better.

Wheels anywhere from 6in-8in as I’d be riding the trails here in San Diego, which have little rocks.

Motors, as I mentioned.

I forgot to add my concerns for belt drive, with the rocks, it could pose a problem. I was thinking to buy a $200 3d printer also, that way I could print a belt motor guard of some sort. Otherwise directdrive is a bit too expensive.

I am not sure if chaindrive would be advisable, to be able to use that much torque

1 Like
#9

lol maybe, I suppose I could splurge a little more, but not too much more

1 Like
#10

What’s the difference between the xenith and the focbox unity?

#11

Yes you can’t have enough power but I think you underestimate the power of a standard 2WD 6374 board. You can go like 45mph and have more power than the scooter drivers. 4wd is for super crazy 60mph racing. You are working with a budget that allows a good 2WD or a cheap crappy 4wd.

5 Likes
#12

my 2wd 6374 13/44 gear 125mm wheel can throw me off the board if i ever full throttle from standstill with 95% bodyweight leaning forward

1 Like
#13

Focbox Unity and Xenith are the same ESC, just 1 is made by a douchebag who scammed a bunch of people, and the other is from Buildkitboards who offers a warranty :slight_smile:

As for how the Xenith compares to MakerX… Xenith is Vesc 4 HW based, and MakerX, depending on what you go for, let’s say DV6, is Vesc 6 HW based. Xenith has an on/off switch, but they’re not bulletproof, so getting a dedicated antispark or loopkey would be recommended anyway. What does Vesc 6 HW give you? Bit more power and reliability I guess. Better HFI (sensorless startup) if you care about that. Personally I no longer buy anything still based on HW4, but hey, Xenith is cheaper and has a warranty from a trusted shop, so the choice is yours :upside_down_face:

2 Likes
#14

yes, I was afraid the budget is too limited in that respect. I am not planning to go that fast, I just want as much torque as I can get limiting speed at 25mph basically. I don’t want to encounter terrain I cannot cross. For e.g. grass, I don’t want it to be slow on grass or going up 30% grass hills. Not sure if that’s possible, but certainly I feel like I need to aim high and if I fall short, atleast I can say I am not limited by the choices I made, but the choices that are available. Of course I’ve seen some crazy builds that can do that, but require 2 stage gearing, and that’s beyond my capabilities at the moment

#15

Agree
I’ve built a board - 12s, 80A battery, 6374 - 80A each motor, 16/40 gears, 120mm wheels
That was way too powerful for me, I just can’t control the board under acceleration. Sold it, wanna stay alive :slight_smile:
Now Iam happy with my 10s setup :wink:

3 Likes
#16

Even if you are heavy a 2WD geared for 25mph will get you up EVERYTHING. The only reason to go 4wd would be traction. If you want to climb 45 degree dirt hills or something. But then it would need to ba a Mountainboard with bindings anyway.

8 Likes
#17

Your limiting factor won’t be torque, but rather tire traction. I get 43nm from my dual 6374s, and they’re more than capable of doing a burnout anywhere offroad on my 8" knobblies.

3 Likes
#18

Yo! If you need some help hit me up, there’s a few of us down here

#19

Love the comparison. I’d prob go with VESC 6 as I don’t want to deal with old tech. The warranty does sound nice. All I read is people using unity though, as far as I’ve read, and some mention of xenith. Why people still buy Unity?

I would do the loopkey too. I’ve seen people add capacitors to lower the voltage spikes as well to the VESCs, but if I get a 16s vesc I may not have to worry about that

#20

Xenith only recently came out, and Unity is really popular because it works well for a lot of people and is cheap. No reason buy a new Unity now tho

Vescs already have capacitors to smoothen the voltage. MakerX’s small ESCs didn’t have them for a while (which was a mistake), but now they all do. As long as your wires from the battery to the ESC aren’t super long you shouldn’t worry about that stuff.

16s is going to limit your ESC choices though, and the motors might not like it either. Not that much testing has been done yet, our hobby only got high voltage ESCs less than a year ago :sweat_smile:

1 Like