A bit of history, from someone who grew up in L.A. (Echo Park, Silver Lake, Lincoln Heights, East L.A., Downtown, Hollywood), and who was exposed to the Valley kids of San Fernando Valley through the GATE schooling system. Skating was a contruct which was a passifier, especially for those who didn’t hit the actual waves of the Pacific Coast, for whatever reason, largely financial, I think. What spawned was the ability to feel the same freedom on the tarmac. Not only real surfers leveraged skateboarding when the waves were not available, but those across all economic classes aspired to the same feeling and experience. The cost of entry was far below owning a surfboard and being able to reach the coast. Landlocked lower classes can achieve the same feeling without having to know how to swim as ya know, growing up in an apartment with the couch as your bed did not support all that “lifestyle”, no backyard pool, no soccer mom to ferry you to the boy scout meetings and to the ocean. No expensive B-day parties with 300 dollar presents like a Redline BMX bike, etc. The profits came from all economic classes, agnostic to income and included everyone from upper class kids, to the counterculture kids from Linoln Heights. I think the future of profitability requires aspiring the population towards all the liberating benefits of skating, from hillbombing to simply running that errand down the street…
Benefits such as cheating death surviving that first speed wobble…
Good points, thanks for that 
I think its always about the audience you have and trying to find something that makes sense. 2WD was a good choice because it was this “classic” board that lot of people are using to cruise the street. Of course, you can still build a monster, but no-binding and 2 motors is a reasonable working limitation.
With the EUCs now in France where we expect around 80 riders, we are playing with the idea of categorizing by weight of the machine - the hypothesis that big motors and big batteries need more weight so we could split them into two categories - less and more powerful. Lets see how that works. Was wondering if it could anyhow work for the skates aswell but I guess we would need to first bring a weight tool to the races and start getting info about the distribution 
We are generally trying to find a setup categorization and avoid things like time splitting to still make the win hard to get and not just “the best of the rest”. The general idea is that you cannot mix certain categories in open so attending the lower class will prevent you from winning the major class which the advanced riders dont really find appealing. Because usually who has the power board wants to compete for the best.
The whole app around the xerace system - given its time based - is aimed to give anyone a tool for improving and make it fun, wherever you end up. Especially since the races here in Europe are usually the only occasions where we meet during the year, so there is not much joined training groups like elsewhere. So the goal is, whether you are first or last the what you take away is how much you were able to improve since last time (standardized tracks help for this one), how did you improve during the day, how close to your potential you were riding and so on. So even if you are last (because everyone needs to start somewhere) you have your own fight until you get good enough to fight the others.
The idea with the challenge head-to-head race is that we want to make only the Pro riders fight each other, so you need to “earn” a licence for that kind of by placing yourself in the xerace. Was talking to @Xcs that we could actually make the Challenge race as a separate EER Pro league that is basically a league for the Pros with own ranking - but earned each race (so achievable for anyone) and xerace as a general base mass race format for everyone.
All being said, the important part of why we do the time based race at all is that it puts much less stress on the organization if the system works well And removes part of the ambiguity of “what happens if”. As we mostly organize all the races in like two-three people, its an important part. Its much easier to just do a challenge head-to-head race at the end for selected riders, because its a small chunk of time and the riders usually know what they are doing.
Yeah, I kinda liked how in Pardubice each setup on the podium was completely different Its like the golden age of F1
Its cool but I personally think we’re straying a bit too far from skateboarding. Even 200mm wheels is too big imo and I’d like to see it capped at 150-165mm since thats big enough for pneumatic to have grip on indoor tracks but not so big that you need to get the tig welder out to make a monstrosity that fits kart tires.
Many entry level boards and even premium boards like the Mach One can run 150mm tires but not bigger.
And as far as starting to standardize at least something, a spec tire class seems pretty achievable and is a bit more F1, and would address the problems of people going broke (and getting broken) using BRP wheels to be competitive.
Initially seems like a good idea, but wouldn’t that eventually still disadvantage heavy riders who need more power and battery compared to feathers like Dylan who’s <50kg ? And it could drive some people to make the lightest board possible with expensive materials which may end up less reliable and more pay to win - that said I’d love to see the creativity and innovation thats driven from this, but there’s only a handful of us DIY builders.
To grow the sport we need race boards that are easily and affordably obtainable as well as beginner friendly, and a way for new people to track and experience improvement and compete against other beginners so that they feel they can at least have a chance of winning at something instead of feeling like they suck doing laps at 20kph getting passed by people doing 3x the speed.
I don’t have all the answers as of yet, David is doing some really great work in the right direction in terms of trying different classes and encouraging and enabling people to experience improvement over time.
I think what’s mostly missing at this stage is a brand with some R&D budget and existing large customer base like Evolve or Meepo to host regular events at the same locations and have a stock class so their customers can race regularly just like going karting. They can bring their friends to watch and they might get fomo and buy a board to start learning and join in on the fun.
I believe Jetsurf has already being doing this, maybe we can learn from them about the challenges involved with doing this and whether its a viable approach to growing the sport.
I definitelly feel you Its true the OPEN class (or the highest class) is simply not skateboarding anymore. Its some mix between skateboard, go kart, snowboard or whatever. But I dont think thats necessarily a bad thing as the sport itself invites people from those mixed backgrounds to compete in something new. You can be a not so good skateboarder but understand grip from other motorsport and it can help you. So to me it seems ok. I never skateboarded tbh so for me electric skateboard is a whole different tool.
But thats why do the OPEN 2WD which should be exactly more tuned up for the classic skateboards out there. But fair to say for the hardcore skateboarders out there even having rubber wheels feels not a skateboard anymore so thats why we have a separate STREET class that is only urethane, two motors, without bindings and thats the closest one to skateboard we get. But honestly see its mostly niche category right now as people simply move away from urethane and most of them prefer (understandable) airless or rubber tyres for comfort ride.
But anyway BRP is still 150mm I think so quite a small tyre. But I would love to see more options that work well.
For us the biggest problem is simply to get the people racing. And one of the thing is that the people taking the racing seriously are usually the people with the crazy machines which move away from skateboard. With the stock class it sounds fun, but the problem is to find enough people to fill the category and even have the desire to race. Because oftentimes the people on cheap skateboards simply like to ride around in my opinion.
I have to say from my experience, the racing itself just feels so much more fun with the boards of today, because suddenly the track makes sense. You are not just crusing around but getting the similar feeling of really “on the edge” corners like in the go kart. Its really only starting to be a real fun now. And I still think the people who stay longer will eventually tune up their boards because they want that feeling. But definitelly agree you need “lower” categories to broaden the entry and give the people the chance to find out they like it. But I think you have to count on the fact that those people are more attracted to the event as a social gathering and having a race just as a part of that.
Some events I see try to hard to make it a professional sports event when the community is just not there. @VasekHruby can tell more about Jetsurf but what I saw, the vision of the event was just not respecting the reality of the community at that moment. They needed to drag the people from anywhere to ride the stock category and they were still not enough to get any league going for longer time. I still dont know if the stock category on its own is viable. Nobody is just interested in a sole “pro race” event currently if they are not already heavily invested in it. I think when the people ride stock boards they might be for the race if they happen to be in that place for some reason, do not need to travel far away and do not have to pay a lot. Like when you go go karting with friends on the afternoon.
The harshest truth right now is that these events usually cost a lot to organize. And its hard to sustain if you already dont have a huge group of people. Evolve used to organize something aswell back in the days. But it usually lasts a year or two and then its gone because the hype does not materialize and the financial reality hits. So if you want to survive you just need to go and try to get anyone you can, with any machine they have. And try to make it work somehow so it makes sense.
Also in the end, any category outside of open is possible to game. You can have any specifications you can, but someone will find a way to game it if they want and win by some build. Or you limit it by a specific skate model but then you have to have these skateboards and you are back in the situation where the smallest and lightest rider will have more advantage (until we can find a way to put 10-15 extra kg on the board somewhere :-D). But yeah, agree that I dont really know if the weight limit itself would be working either. Its a tricky thing to get right.
We even had one competitor coming up with the idea that if we limit it with stock boards they will just go and create an “eshop” with their DIY board So it gets harder and harder to specify exactly so the easiest the rule is the better for the organizer. We had some discussions about electronics check like in F1 but if anything like that happens its years away and more likely for the custom boards again (still hope we hit that physical limit before that). For now it needs to be something that is easily visible on the spot.
In general in xerace we see that the growth is just a slow and painful process. The people join but it takes years currently. To have even 1-2 new riders on each event is a golden reward. EUC is growing much more in my opinion because they dont need much modifications. They have powerful but safe machines out of the box that they can do group rides with and ride anywhere. So I am still waiting to see if the new wave of more powerful stock boards will change anything long term.
What prevents a Mach 1 from running bigger tires? Is it just wheelbite? The 8x3.00-4 tires require some of the larger mountainboard wheels like Rockstar Pro II XLs or at least Fivestars, but you can put 200x50mm tires on basically any wheel meant for eskate with pneumatics. I like the 8x3.00-4 size precisely because it can easily be used on fairly common mountainboard wheels without modification.
Also, on board weight classes, IMO, that will devolve into people having to build new batteries every time a new high-power cell comes out if they want to be competitive. The amount of power you’d get out of the newest tabless cells would make things like even Molicel P45Bs pretty uncompetitive if the weight limit substantially limits battery size. The weight of the rest of the board would also matter, but cells are a giant factor in power-to-weight for a board.
Yeah thats definitelly good point. Part of the weight idea was that even if you buy a new battery, you would probably need a new motor to use that power. And if you want to use that power you need bigger tyres etc. So the weight would get dragged up and up. Its all the components combined with the hypothesis that you are usually using the setup on the possible limit. And the question is if you could find some treshold that would reasonably separate hobby boards from power boards. So you would either upgrade and get bumped to higher power class or keep it and stay in the lower one.
For sure the improvement might keep the weight down with the more advanced tech. But so far I see our boards only getting heavier tbh Probably the biggest difference would be running lipo. But still question if you could find a treshold where even with lipo you would just not have enough weight limit for the motors that would use it. Hard to tell, would need to get some data and observe.
The thing is with our xerace rules, you are still able to build a monster within the specifications so you are not technically the same board. So just thinking about that. Its about where you want to leave that creative freedom. But anyway first thing is that the category still needs to be big enough to even have some racers so I think we are good for now
The weight difference of ESCs is pretty much negligible, IMO. Even for the motors in eskate, you’re only talking about a 100 g to 200 g difference between the different sizes of common motors. If you have a 4p pack and can get 55 amps out of each cell instead of 45 amps, then that is almost as good as going to 5p, but adding a p group would add a kilogram or more, depending on how many you’re running in series. Even just 12s would be ~840 g just in cells. I run 18s, so it would be 1,260 g in cells, probably over 1,500 g once you consider building a pack and everything.
If anything, the way to limit speeds might actually be to limit tire options to something not very good on purpose. I’m not sure how I feel about that, but if done right, I think it would be the easiest way to reduce speed and level out the field a bit. If you could find something that didn’t just completely let go when you hit the limit, that would be even better.
With the tyres, we have been there I think You just buy a set for the race, abuse them as much as possible and still get whatever you need out of them. Even if not so reliable. But I have seen super fast people on really shit tyres
The only reliable way to limit the speed is to make the track smaller I guess. Everything else is just an engineering problem
@tuckjohn Thats insane But depends if its a usual setup. Because the main point is that you cannot combine classes. So a rider like Jack could either win the lower class or go fight for the top class. And the real question is if you find riders with those setups wanting to fight for lower classes.
Speaking of racing, we’ve had a few people request higher kv motors lately for 4WD race boards.
We get these custom made individually usually, but I thought I’d get a couple extra sets of these 6465 255kv motors made up, perfect for the front of a 4WD race board.
We have 2 sets put aside, 398 AUD / 360 USD per set. Shoot us a message if interested! We can also match them with a set of 6495 255kv and ship worldwide with all taxes and custom’s fee’s included in the shipping price 
Im curious, is there any particular reason reacher doesnt do 190ish kv?
The kv is a result of the number of turns - how many times the bundle of coils is wrapped around the stator teeth. You can only do increments in whole numbers like 6 turns, 7 turns and not say 6.5 turns, hence why you end up with specific jumps in kv and can’t do inbetween.
I see. Guess im stuck with flipshit for the time being 
The 6465 and 6475 size can do 190kv. The kv steps change between motor length as there are multiple factors that affect the final kv, not just number of turns alone.
Dm me if you want a custom set of 190kv 6465/75! We have a shipping channel that can get them into the US without import taxes and customs fee’s.
Thx dude. I actually recently got new flipshits after one broke down recently but I’ll be sure to check with you next time. I might upgrade both my builds next season and will be sure to check with you!
was that with or without the lead weights 
