Indeed and i dont use calibers XD unless it was a inside joke i missed.
When you race a esk8 is there any grip level playing, as in finding the grip of you board and riding right on that limit of grip? In a car if you loose grip you can still save it, but if you loose grip on an esk8 is it just “oh shit bail” or can you still save it? Sorry if this is a stupid question…
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You can still save it depending on the circumstances and what wheels you have. Urethane wheels, for example, can be slid on and people do it all the time, so you could technically drift a urethane board if you were skilled enough
It would really stress the crap out of all the components though, and you’d want a harder urethane compound than something like the TB 110’s.
Venom Magnum 78a for example, is one wheel that some downhill boarders use and slide on
On the pneumatic wheels side, I’m not really sure, but on offroad, you can recover if you know what you’re doing
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So this is why you should keep your weight majority on the front truck, this way if the back slides out it 's easier to get the back wheels to re-grip. This is why knowing how to initiate a slide helps, so that when you hit the edge of grip and the back slides out you can take control of it rather than letting it control you. As far as rubber and sliding I have no idea but I plan on trying it out
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Why would it stress out components ? Also what I am doing is sliding which is more like a FWD car while drifting is what AWD RWD cars do, I do not touch the gas until after sliding
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Establishing what makes a fast corner. Any drifting (entry, middle,exit) in a turn will produce a slower exit turn speed. On asphalt/concrete, using the maximum lateral grip available throughout the turn will always produce the best result exit turn speed. With braking and acceleration forces applied to the contact patch through a turn, total lateral grip is compromised by forward bite and braking force.
“Important” When a wheel is loaded Grip increases.
Keeping this as simple as possible
Load increases to the front axel on turn entry while under deceleration decreasing lateral grip on the rear. Lateral force overcomes lateral grip on entry, you lose the rear.
With Urethane there is a hard grip cutoff once lateral grip is lost . The lateral force must be decreased in order to regain lateral grip.
With rubber, lateral grip is lost on a curve that can be managed with throttle/brake control decreasing lateral force to regain total grip.
There are circumstances and design that have effect on lateral grip not discussed but these are the simple different characteristics between PU and Rubber.
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I suppose ability to lean the wheel (like bikes) and allow more deformation and repartition of the load helps to maximize grip whereas usual skate wheel design cannot lean ? And overall rubber will always allow more progressivity and deformation for a given load too ?
Thanks for the heads-up 
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Really good info there, all I know is based off feel and bro science lol
thought the baseplates u have go with calibers
oh no i got 3d servias adjustable baseplates. Caliber doesnt even make adjustables if i remember correctly.
Right, I was saying theoretically you could do drifting like RWD cars on a board, in which case, it would be putting a lot of strain on the components
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stress on the electronics or like trucks and wheels ?
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All of the above, you’re basically using max amps to spin out the wheels. Tons of axial forces from the sliding movement, weird sideways vectors from turning… You get the idea?
I’ve done it on dirt before and overheated my ESC in like 10 mins doing donuts
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ah, I am not spinning the wheel when sliding. Just getting to speed and coasting when sliding
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Yeah that’s more like traditional longboard sliding
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Was gonna put this on the @FastBoard thread but decided it would be better put here.
To Put in some race perspective here. There are many purpose built boards that perform well at specific functions.
In SHORT TRACK (sub 30mph)
- Grip is King, you are only as good as your contact patch will allow you to be.
- The deck setup. What performs best has a front binding with a deck line just above the axel line.
(With grip comes lateral G’, With a top mount Lateral G increases the force required to maintain input tilt while reducing turn control.) Some G “pushback” is good.
3)Wide or Narrow most truck designs can do well here. Channel, DKP, TKP, RKP are capable.
Depending on the track, tuning out rear truck angle will help turn exit stability.
In LONG TRACK, uphill (30+mph)
- Grip is King
- A precision Truck is a Must have.
Tire tread center to deck edge is a good approximate width. Reduce rear steer to a minimum that the sharpest turn on course will allow.
3)The deck setup follows close behind. Increased length helps with control. Increased length decreases the boards tendency to Dart or Hunt on un-smooth or transitioning surface while at speed. We run a 42"wheel base for the example.
The above drop vs G as described above still applies.
Couple of things to take to the bank.
“Sliding is Slow.” Gravity-Thane required a very large tool box of skill and talent to properly control. With Powered Thanes limited grip add accel and deceleration dynamics to lateral control adding to the difficulty.
Powered DH boards on Thane have been tried and tested and raced by pro level riders. They get smoked in short,long and up-hill by I’ll prepared boards with good grip.
While having skills in DH is an asset and make the transition to powered racing easy. It is not necessary. I personally know great riders from both, who Race and win on powered boards.
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Truth, I guess the question is how far apart do you want electric and downhill skating to be. Because both of these niches could help each other the same way stand up piggy backed on luge events. Would be amazing to see the same riders going down the hill with gravity also race up it with electricity. Brought my eboard to a downhill event this weekend and a lot of people were interested, biggest complaints was price and their irrational hate for electric boards that I use to also have.
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On the US west coast E-Boards have had a presence, piggy backing on DH events since 2018. They have been IDF timed at Mary Hill and just had their 3rd year running Barrett Junction.
Over all the reception from the DH community has been very open and very positive. At BJ we had an all uphill race with all DH riders on E-Boards. Good times on the horizon.
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I appreciate your experience and opinion, @MoeStooge.
What I have learnt so far:
As you say powered downhill boards are ill suited to short tracks, precision trucks with low angle plates are not suitable for short tracks as they simply do not have a suitable turning circle and those tracks are fun but once you’ve gone fast, you’re addicted.
Yes it’s adds lateral control difficulty, almost all electric boarders stand up and widen their stance to aid in this stability, sure this works but increases your air resistance and raises your centre of gravity which is harder to control in corners vs crouched or in tuck with a low CoG. Truth is your not going to be able to stand up like this above 90 kmph let alone shoulder a corner. Air resistance is stupid high and CoG is too high at those speeds.
You going to stay “how the fuck do you deal with all the torque crouched down? How do you fix this?”
Enter the “jesus” handle that mounts to the front of the board directly above the front truck, I use this for stability when accelerating in tuck, it can be used for powered toeside sliding too, this is the way forward. Means lower air resistance in tuck and lower CoG for stability in corners whilst being able to deal with the massive torque and shock loads from the motors whilst crouched down. Also means you can gansta lean in tuck whilst on the gas and oh boy can I tell you how good that feels!
Soft urethane race wheels have a metric shit tonne of grip when used on the right surfaces, they rival V8 supercar levels of grip out of the box when used by pro riders at Bathurst hear in AUS. They do also behave just like rubber tires in that they wont tolerate too high a mix of longitudinal grip (forwards backwards) and lateral grip (sideways), but that’s part of learning to race and learning where the limit of grip is. Urethane is also good because you can keep the wheels small and they stayed tucked under your board, small is good for DD. Thing is urethane wheels only like smooth roads and the grippy mould release surface doesn’t last long. I agree soft grippy rubber would be better and my next focus is just that.
Riding stance/style influences the type of board you should ride, if your standing up with a wide stance, you have all your weight on the rear truck, your board will probably be long, dropped with wide trucks for added stability.
If your crouched down in tuck you want a completely different board that will handle completely differently.
DH powered thane boards get smoked because they’re being ridden the wrong way or on tracks not suited to their use, high powered thane boards will toast all competition on big open long smooth sweeping race tracks but all this stuff is new and who knows what the future holds but once this Corona thing is beat we can get into it.
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Been way down this Rabbit hole at the track with Jeremiah from Ollin board. Jeremiah is possibly one of the smartest guys on the planet to touch a skateboard. He solved many of the initial esc design problems using vesc tech. His design, fit and finish was second to none. The thing I liked most about Ollin was his gonna prove you wrong at all cost mind set. Problem was Jeremiah had the same problem as @FastBoard. He couldn’t let go of tradition. I Wish Jeremiah was still involved in racing. He was awesome at what he did.
Ollin came to Barrett 19"armed with IDF #3 in the world Daniel Engel and 90mph clubman Tim Del and himself. At the top there wasn’t an Ollin board rider in site. They were all Severely gapped by lesser quality riders on rubber.
Ollin came back with bigger motors and these beautiful hand build gear drives and a longer deck. He put some impressive work in these without any real progress. Limiting factor was grip.
Hoyt St. Now these guys followed suit with Sam Sparkowich and Jonner Steck. Couple of great riders on Thane. AWD and purpose built for racing. All severely gapped at Bakersfield Mary Hill and Derby Days by lesser quality riders on rubber. Hoyt St. is working on a pnumatic tire setup that should put them in the running. Really glad Hoyt keeps coming back, they are determined.
To me what @fastboard is describing is a remake of a bad movie.
We are still in the beginning of esk8 Racing. There is a lot to be learned and discovered. Performance is learned and decided in competition. Hope to see more manufacturer involvement and presence this year.
As for the Jesus Handle. 90mph club member Max Capps was the first to implement the Jesus Handle on an E-Board. (I still think it makes it a scooter)
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