i’m not using ai bot anywhere except for the chatbot on my website where the customer knows he’s talking to some ai bot, the thing is the customer is talking straight to me and sometimes i use claude to generate a response because it has to be as agnostic as possible regarding the customer system, also english isn’t my first language so it’s nice to filter out and be cohesive
Just random thinking out loud sometimes I use AI to convert my messages because I just cannot figure out how to say something without sounding angry because I am LOL
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Well those are just directly contradictory.
Huh? No clue what you mean by this.
Sure, i get that. I’m very sympathetic to translation usecases. But when the bot is returning blocks of text such as…
…it’s pretty obvious that you’re not just prompting it to translate a block of text you wrote. You’re prompting it to make up a response to the customer’s question, and then sending that made up response directly to the customer. That’s a big difference, in my opinion.
Whatever. You and I clearly have different opinions on the acceptable uses of ai, and we’re probably not going to change each other’s minds about it. I just wanted to point out what I see as shitty business practices, for the benefit of anyone else on this forum who might consider doing business with you. People should be warned that if they buy a product from you and need customer support, they might get ai slop responses instead of your actual help. If your customers are cool with that, more power to you.
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Thoughts on reinforcing series connections by clamping copper strips together using nickel plated steel?
The top one is 0.2mm which my welder cant reliably weld under nickel plated steel, and the bottom is 0.1mm.
I figured i could use the thicker copper as a busbar, and clamp it down onto the thinner base using NPS strips welded onto both. Think this could work?
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If your welder is on the edge of being able to reliably weld nickel plated steel atop 0.2mm copper at full power of your welder, then substituting Stainless steel for NPS will likely allow solid welds at a bit less than full welder power.
SS is the copper sandwich magic maker, just view it as welding aid and not a conductor, and know soldering to it is near impossible.
Next up is the copper weld flux.
https://diy500amp.com/products/flux-for-copper-to-copper-spot-welding-100g
employing this between cell and copperrequires about 15% less power from welder than without, and increases consistency greatly, but use it very sparingly, especially on positive.
Cleaning the copper with red scotch brite also helps, not only consistency of welds and strength, but makes it easy to round/deburr the cut edges so they can’t easily dig into fishpaper or heatshrink.
91% isopropyl alcohol wipe all mating surfaces before welding, and fingerprint oils are not desirable.
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its an awithZ uf20b so maybe it could do 0.2mm copper if i try the things you suggest, and get stainless steel if thats not enough.
Ive seen that copper to copper flux from diy500amp talked about, but getting it shipped to Europe would be pretty pricey.
The 0.1mm stainless is likely the most effective way to get the uf20b to weld 0.2mm copper.
I forget the exact numbers on my p20b but IIrc i could not get 0.2mm copper to weld under 0.1mm nickel steel at gear 950, but with stainless gear 550 was enough.
Adding Nelvick’s flux under that 0.2mm copper, under 0.1mm SS reduced the gear to 380 or less.
Check on aliexpress for the copper flux/ brazing paste, or drop an email to nelvick at sales.diy500ampdotcom.
Perhaps with no batteries in the order, shipping to Europe might not be too ridiculous.
But start with the Stainless.
oh damn it makes that much of a difference?
Ill give stainless a go, thanks 
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I decided to double check.
This is gear 869 on my AwithZ P20B.
0.2mm copper under 0.1mm nickel plated steel on a Murata Vtc6 (18650)
Both welds are very solid, and almost identical in size.
Hard to see in the photo, but the force required to tear the sandwich this far distorted the surface. This was rolling the strips with needle nose plyers tips.
I feel this is the minimum weld strength one should shoot for in esk8 applications, and I believe most of the more experienced battery builders here would agree. @BenjaminF @jack.luis @glyphiks
My first weld (not shown) was at gear 769, and one of the pair of welds popped off pretty easily but the other was almost as large as the welds shown above.
That 769 gear test was on the negative / anode / Can side.
When one weld of the pair is strong but the other weak, more power is needed, in my experience.
Below is gear 869 on the Anode. Same 0.2mm copper under 0.1mm Nickel plated steel. No flux. VTC6.
This weld is not quite as even, although likely more than acceptable as the copper tore.
It is just that the welds are not quite as big of a diameter and are not as close in size. I’d likely bump up the gear by 10-15 to get it to look the same as on the cathode / +
Below is using the same, but with 0.1mm stainless and gear 529.
Unfortunately the probe on the right slipped right to the edge of the sandwich before I hit the pedal, The electrodecables really seemed to jump and hit the cell hard, and I heard the Pffft of electrolyte escaping the punctured( fully discharged) VTC6 cell.
It smelled different than other cells I have punctured, not the same sickly sweet, almost as if there was some black pepper mixed in to the usually sickly sweet smell, hard to describe.
Here is Gear 529 on an Ampace JP40. Same 0.2mm copper under 0.1mm Stainless steel, no flux.
Please ignore the burnt heatshrink. This donated cell was meant for different tests (spot weld ampacity) that I have completely flaked out on performing. Apologies.
I usually use gear 550 on 0.2mm copper under 0.1mm stainless steel when not using flux.
I lowered the gear to 529 for the Murata VTC6, as its can is either thinner, or a softer steel alloy, or both, and so I just left the same settings when I busted out the JP40.
While gear 529 seems acceptable with this combo, the welds are not as equal as I would have liked, and also note how closely I held the electrodes to each other on the sandwich.
This is one variable that I do not see mentioned very often, but the further apart the electrodes are upon the sandwich during the weld pulse, the more that the welding heat is dissipated by the can and the busbar, So having the electrodes very close to each other, will allow lesser welder power to achieve stronger welds.
But having the electrodes close together is dangerous, as if they touch, then the welder might get damaged / destroyed.
I recommend trying very hard to always have the electrodes at the same angle, with the same size and shape of the tip, and the same distance apart, and use the same downward pressure.
For consistency and repeatability.
This is probably far more important when using copper sandwich, than when using pure Nickel.
I don’t have any experience with 0.2mm pure nickel, but 0.15mm pure nickel by itself requires gear 89 on my P20B.
So a quick summary:
When not using flux
I needed gear 869 to weld 0.2mm copper under 0.1mm Nickel plated steel.
I needed gear 529 to weld 0.2mm copper under 0.1mm Stainless steel, but I would prefer gear 550.
The Anode and the cathode of the VTC6 require slightly different power levels, with the cathode requiring more. All cells will be slightly different as the thickness of the nickel plating can vary, as can the texture of that plating, which changes the resistance.
If using the same test cell over and over, and cleaning the old welds with a dremel or similar, then that nickel plating is removed and the can is annealed slightly and welder settings will not be truly representative of the (higher) settings required a new virgin cell
Gear 529 was enough to weld 0.2mm copper under 0.1mm stainless, but I would bump it upto 550 to get both welds equal size and strength consistently.
My other welder settings were all left the same.
I rarely change anything but the gear level
I use 0.15ms preheating
Intermittent 02ms. This is the delay between preheating pulse and first weld pulse
I use double weld pulses.
On a different menu screen I have changed the “Interval of continuous spot welds’” to 0.2 seconds from the stock 0.1 seconds. This is the interval between the weld pulses, if one has chosen double pulse( or triple on the P20b and other more powerful AwithZ welders)
Honestly, I have not found very much difference in the results when I change the preheating duration, the intermittent, or the interval between weld pulses. There is a difference between single and double pulse, but it is not as much as I expected to see.
In general the Gear has by far, the most effect on the welded result, and one can just set it to a single pulse and No preheating and achieve very similar results, regarding tear off strength, in my opinion, and probably should when learning the machine.
I think if you can not reliably weld 0.2mm copper under 0.1mm nickel plated steel at gear 99 with your UF20B, then simply using Stainless steel instead of Nickel plated steel and gear 85 would likely be more than enough.
If you wanted to use even less welder power, or if gear 90 on the uf20b was still not quite enough, then get the welding flux.
I personally try and avoid going over gear 940 as it is far more stress on the welder.
If using the flux, use very little on the cathode, and wipe off any which squeezes out on the anode/-/can with some isopropyl alcohol on a q tip.
Also, when using the flux, there will be some smoke escape. I treat this smoke like I do Solder fumes, and try to have it sucked into a nearby HEPA filter with several layers of activated charcoal as a pre filter.
I full understand why the more experienced builders do not want to use the flux, and not just because of the smoke or the added step.
I have started using 0.25mm copper under 0.1mm stainless steel, but gear 940 is not enough without the flux to weld this with my p20b. It is close, but one weld of the pair is too weak, and i dont want to have to rely on gear 999 each and every weld.
With the flux, IIRC, gear 729 is enough.
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this is very helpful, thank you
I’ve actually only tried gear 95 / 100, but i often ran into the problem of one side tearing while the other only left a small nuget, maybe sanding and cleaning with IPA might get me closer, but i dont think it will be consistently good with the nickel plated steel cap. The stainless steel is already ordered so hopefully i should have some better results in a couple of days.
if gear 550 worked for 0.2mm copper under under 0.1mm stainless (im assuming that just means 55% of max power), then that should be doable with the UF20B so hopefully i wont need the flux.
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I think you’ll likely wind up achieving a solid pair of welds a gear 75-80 with 0.1mm Stainless on top of 0.2mm copper with the UF20b.
If you used flux and SS, probably about gear 62-67.
Let us know, I bet a lot of people would use use 0.2mm copper if they knew a ~150$ welder could reliably weld it as well less than its max power.
Ill post some updates tomorrow or the day after when it arrives!
Here are some early results using 0.2mm copper + 0.1mm stainless steel for anyone whos curious.
With a slit cut in just the stainless steel:
With a slit cut in both the copper and stainless steel:
No slit in either:
These are some of my first attemts so this looks very doable with a uf20b.
These were all done with gear 75, intermittent 0.2ms, preheat 0.15ms, dual pulse.
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How do you guys sound dampen your boards? Mines crazy loud.
Looks to definitely be in range of the UF20b, but more than gear 75 for sure.
The shape of the plyers which you are using can make one ‘torn’ weld look a bit bigger than the other, but when one weld just pops off with no tearing, just some copper residue, then more power is required.
Can try and confirm by switching the sides one holds the plyers in.
Also I put a little red marker dot on one of my welder pens and try to always use than one in my right hand, when raising power in increments and trying to determine the minimum settings required for a specific sandwich thickness.
Does the UF20B have the another option in a different Submenu settings screen which says “interval of continuous spotwelding” ?
I have set and left mine at 0.2 seconds. I Just think I get better results with 0.2 seconds as opposed to 0.1 between the weld pulses. It seems like both weld pulses are the closer to the same strength, rather than the second being slightly less with 0.1 second interval. it could just be in the way the cables jump.
I found the slot to be effective at reducing welder power, and for busbar alignment, but not worth the effort of making with a dremel and cut off wheel.
Do note that when cleaning previous welds off the test cell, the nickel plating on the cell is also removed, and subsequent welds on that area require slightly less welder power to achieve a good weld.
Maybe also try using more or less downward pressure on the welding pens.
When the welder has more than enough power there is little consequence to really pressing firmly, but with a welder near its upper limit, too much pressure can cause smaller less firm weld nuggets.
I’ve found that I like holding my welding pens more in an ‘H’ shape than a ‘V ‘shape, as it allows me to get their distance and the downward pressure much more consistent, as well as the slightly conical tip shape is more similar on each weld, which also helps on the consistency.
Love seeing the pictures.
I’ve been referencing older posts in this thread when trying to remember what settings I used.
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What’s the noise?
My first DIY made some horrific noises. I had built an enclosure similar to a bathtub, that housed the 12S11 battery as one giant lump. Good for a first build, but a massively flawed design.
I rebuilt the battery and made another enclosure, using a segmented design with five compartments. A lot of work, but The “donk” noise of 18kg hitting potholes improved a lot once all the stress wasn’t being point loaded to each end of the deck.
I couldn’t give a toss if a boards noisy, but if the noise represents some type of concern that could cause failure then it needs addressed.
It’s nothing that’s making noise in the deck, it’s just the vibrations of the road are getting amplified by how much empty space is in my enclosure. Could I just put foam in my enclosure?
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Closed cell neoprene foam does a good job of holding stuff in place for a while and will probably do a good job of dampening any rattles/vibrations/etc
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12s4p pack of p42a’s having P groups reading between 0.01v and 0.022v is trash yeah? 
how do I even dispose of this paperweight I now own 
Most ethical option is to recycle it. E waste recyclers where I am used to take batteries for free, but they charged me for the last lot which is going to a good cause at least. There might be free options for recycling where you are perhaps.
Yeah, anything less than 1V per cell is where I would draw the line, and even then that’s still poor advice due to the risk of fire.
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